New engine build - coolant pouring

[crazyttypechic6]

So after a long year of being down...we have rebuilt the 87 Ttype - made some up grades from flat tappet to a roller valve train, changed cam (212/212) nothing major, went back with copper head gaskets, Harland sharp rockers, comp lifters, new bright and shiny headers almost the whole 9 yards . Finally getting around to finishing it up installing all accessories and major components, set crank sensor, set cam sensor installed battery was about ready to install new chip and try and build some oil pressure when we filled the vehicle with coolant. Now we have a coolant pour from the back of the engine. It seem to be streaming back running down oil pan due to the car still up on ramps- BUT that's not just it - pressure tested the coolant system - under pressure it poured - same area - checked all freeze plugs we could get to, all seemed fine noticed at the front bottom of the drivers side head up in the corner where the head meets the block some bubbles - really? It couldnt be - so jump up to check the dip stick notice oil drilling off the dip stick and beading up when we whipped the stick clean. Got back under the car put my finger at the base of the dip stick tube and the oil would re-route from running down the oil pan to running down my finger.

I do not understand how this could happen. It has not seen its first crank - this engine was built by a reputable builder for the area here - am I just in disbelief that this could be a head gasket or could this be something else happening?

 

[earlbrown]

if it's a head gasket, that's easy enough to diagnose. Shoot compressed air into each hole and see if one of those kids are doing their own thing. Or do it right and get a leak down tester that way you can have a baseline for cylinder seal.


I'm a little confused. Do you have a coolant leak AND an oil leak?

for the coolant, you might be in trouble based on your description. There are 4 small freeze plugs on the back of the block. If the engine is in there car, you'd have to pull it out, or drop the trans and remove the flexplate to see them. And if that's the case, I have no idea if there's enough room to lever them out and knock in new ones.

 

[EVIL]

The term "reputable builder” gets thrown around by too many people and most times it doesn’t make it so.

Most of us know that the hard way also.

good luck
D

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Coolant level drop, when you pressurized the rad? If so, it could be going into the pan, floating the oil level up, and the oil is coming out at the base of the dip stick. Since you have not cranked the engine, I doubt the oil level would be high enuf to leak at the stick.

You ARE using plain water, right??
Head gasket.. What, if any, sealer was used on them?
Heads torqued?
Head locator pins holding the head off the gasket?
I'd give that mess right back to the engine shop.....

 

[crazyttypechic6]

if it's a head gasket, that's easy enough to diagnose. Shoot compressed air into each hole and see if one of those kids are doing their own thing. Or do it right and get a leak down tester that way you can have a baseline for cylinder seal.


I'm a little confused. Do you have a coolant leak AND an oil leak?

for the coolant, you might be in trouble based on your description. There are 4 small freeze plugs on the back of the block. If the engine is in there car, you'd have to pull it out, or drop the trans and remove the flexplate to see them. And if that's the case, I have no idea if there's enough room to lever them out and knock in new ones.

if it's a head gasket, that's easy enough to diagnose. Shoot compressed air into each hole and see if one of those kids are doing their own thing. Or do it right and get a leak down tester that way you can have a baseline for cylinder seal.


I'm a little confused. Do you have a coolant leak AND an oil leak?

for the coolant, you might be in trouble based on your description. There are 4 small freeze plugs on the back of the block. If the engine is in there car, you'd have to pull it out, or drop the trans and remove the flexplate to see them. And if that's the case, I have no idea if there's enough room to lever them out and knock in new ones.

***It appears that we have a coolant leak and under pressure with the coolant pressure pump we lost about 2 gallons within a matter of minutes from the drivers side of the vehicle. We chased it back to the oil dipstick which totally makes no sense to me. Contacted the builder and questioned did he seal the threading on the 3 bolts at the head location that are proned to leak if not sealed properly when installing since they do screw into traveling water within the block. That was done. He suggested checking the coolant temp. sensor.

Due to where the coolant seems to be leaking from we checked the engine oil through the dip sticks and it plainly looks like new oil and water mixed. It just drips off the stick freely, then when you wipe the stick dry there is an obvious mix of oil and water. Go back down to where the dip stick tube goes into the bottom of the block and you get new oil and water trailing into your hand. Perhaps I can video some of this tonight so you all can see.

 

[crazyttypechic6]

The term "reputable builder” gets thrown around by too many people and most times it doesn’t make it so.

Most of us know that the hard way also.

good luck
D

I know I know -

 

[crazyttypechic6]

Coolant level drop, when you pressurized the rad? If so, it could be going into the pan, floating the oil level up, and the oil is coming out at the base of the dip stick. Since you have not cranked the engine, I doubt the oil level would be high enuf to leak at the stick.

You ARE using plain water, right??
Head gasket.. What, if any, sealer was used on them?
Heads torqued?
Head locator pins holding the head off the gasket?
I'd give that mess right back to the engine shop.....

The coolant levels dropped so fast I couldn't get it to the suggested 15 psi on the rad. cap. I could only get it to about 9. So yes its a dang waterfall under there, seriously! YES we are only using straight water to refill it, no antifreeze at all. We put 5 quarts of oil in the engine as we were preparing to try and build oil pressure.

 

[robzombie]

Sounds like the head/intake has to come off. If there is water in the oil pan and hitting the floor it's both an internal and external leak which explains why you have so much loss in such a short period of time and under low/no pressure.

I'm curious to know what is holding the head off the block or intake off the head.

Try doing a compression test [with no water in the system] and see which cylinder is super low as I would expect with a leak that major. If the compression is good then the intake is the culprit.

If you do the compression test leave all plugs out for less resistance on the starter and faster cranking.

You might want to drain all the water out of the pan and prime with new oil before doing this [mandatory] or just pull it out and bring back to whoever built it [risky] and hope he finds/fixes it.

There is no easy way out on this, water in the oil pan is either the heads or the intake. Pray that it's the intake and you can just reseal it. If the heads have had major planing done it will throw off the intake to head geometry and cause a leak also requiring the intake to be planed to correct this.

 

[robzombie]

crazyttypechic6 do you know a guy named deadlock?? [Curtis]

 

[crazyttypechic6]

Sounds like the head/intake has to come off. If there is water in the oil pan and hitting the floor it's both an internal and external leak which explains why you have so much loss in such a short period of time and under low/no pressure.

I'm curious to know what is holding the head off the block or intake off the head.

Try doing a compression test [with no water in the system] and see which cylinder is super low as I would expect with a leak that major. If the compression is good then the intake is the culprit.

You might want to drain all the water out of the pan and prime with new oil before doing this [mandatory] or just pull it out and bring back to whoever built it [risky] and hope he finds/fixes it.

There is no easy way out on this, oil in the pan is either the heads or the intake. Pray that it's the intake and you can just reseal it. If the heads have had major planing done it will throw off the intake to head geometry and cause a leak also requiring the intake to be planed to correct this.

Hey - Hope you are well! We haven't ran into you anywhere lately! How is your car doing?

The heads are not appearing to be lifted from the block it all visually appears to be flush and sealed properly, now the intake to head geometry i am also curious about. Turners did the heads, I will pull the documentation and double check what they did - aside from the normal servicing on a new build. The compression test seems to be a legit method. Will let you know how that goes. Its a given that the engine will have to be drained entirely - that would be unheard of with this type of ordeal going on.

Thanks for responding!
C

 

[crazyttypechic6]

crazyttypechic6 do you know a guy named deadlock?? [Curtis]

Yes! Just saw him weekend before last - You met us through him!

 

[robzombie]

Yes! Just saw him weekend before last - You met us through him!

Yea. I went to head hunters dragstrip on that grudge night with him and met you and your husband as well as the guy and his family who ran his car, can't remember his name.

You all are a good bunch of people and I had a great time that night.

 

[robzombie]

Hey - Hope you are well! We haven't ran into you anywhere lately! How is your car doing?

I just put a new motor together for my car also. I hope to have it dialed in soon and hit the track.

 

[crazyttypechic6]

I just put a new motor together for my car also. I hope to have it dialed in soon and hit the track.

Awesome! Hopefully you will not have the concerns we are having!

 

[crazyttypechic6]

Yea. I went to head hunters dragstrip on that grudge night with him and met you and your husband as well as the guy and his family who ran his car, can't remember his name.

You all are a good bunch of people and I had a great time that night.

Yep! you sure did! It was great to have met ya man! It sure is hard to find good folks these days! Maybe we will see you around! Thank you for the input - keep it coming!

 

[Pronto]

Head bolts or studs?

 

[larrym]

Is the block cracked?

 

[robzombie]

Yep! you sure did! It was great to have met ya man! It sure is hard to find good folks these days! Maybe we will see you around! Thank you for the input - keep it coming!

Will do.

Stay in touch and let me/us know what the outcome is when you find the problem.

 

[Nick Micale]

....., went back with copper head gaskets, Harland sharp rockers, comp lifters, new bright and shiny headers almost the whole 9 yards ...................
I do not understand how this could happen. It has not seen its first crank - this engine was built by a reputable builder for the area here - am I just in disbelief that this could be a head gasket or could this be something else happening?

I seriously doubt that this is a fault of the engine builder unless he was the one that elected to use copper head gaskets?

Why anyone would use copper head gaskets on an 8 bolt head is beyond belief?

Cometics head gaskets are a PIA to get sealed, copper needs to be re-torqued continuously during use, if and when they ever do seal.

 

[crazyttypechic6]

I seriously doubt that this is a fault of the engine builder unless he was the one that elected to use copper head gaskets?

Why anyone would use copper head gaskets on an 8 bolt head is beyond belief?

Cometics head gaskets are a PIA to get sealed, copper needs to be re-torqued continuously during use, if and when they ever do seal.

I seriously doubt that this is a fault of the engine builder unless he was the one that elected to use copper head gaskets?

Why anyone would use copper head gaskets on an 8 bolt head is beyond belief?

Cometics head gaskets are a PIA to get sealed, copper needs to be re-torqued continuously during use, if and when they ever do seal.

it was recommended that we purchase these exact head gaskets by the builder, im just saying - we had el cheapos that we gave to him to install - he wanted these.