New Grand National - Help with a setup

[Pronto]

Cam, thousands of guys are running regular TT chips (5.7, 6.0 and 6.1s) well into the 11s and 10s. No need to complicate things unless you have real good understanding about how electronic fuel injection works. The chip is important but you first need sound mechanicals and clean electricals or it will be all for nothing.

 

[Nascar83Fan]

As Pronto said above Cam, just save yourself alot of possible future headaches, broken parts, a much lighter wallet and go get a standard TT chip. You might as well pickup matching injectors as well since you're gonna change the chip. It's really easy to hurt these TR motors if you change the wrong parameters in the tuning of fueling ETC. No sense in risking blowing it up, cause of a tune being off at the wrong possible moment. Trust us, these aren't tuner cars and are a very finiky animal. Things done correctly they live for quite awhile and run very strong.

 

[Nascar83Fan]

By the way, has that scanmaster come in yet?

 

[camarox53]

Hey guys, thanks for the updates. I am still undecided as to what I am going to do about the chip, I really like the idea of being able to see everything that is happening with the car on a really advanced level even if I don't change anything, nothing says I have to go changing a bunch of things . I will need to think about that one more. As for the injectors I am going to pick them up at the same time I get the chip.

Nascar83Fan, I had not recieved the scan master yet so I called Kirban and asked where it was and they said it will be here tomorrow. I won't be able to get it put in until Thursday night but after that I will be sure to update this thread with some information it gives me! BTW, Kirban was super nice and helpful!

Thanks guys,
Cam

 

[Nascar83Fan]

If you want to be able to see what a bunch of different things are then one option you could do is get one of the power logger kits that goes on the ECM and get the Scanmaster 2.2 chip upgrade deal. Believe you can still hook up a laptop and whatnot.
Pretty sure that there are other members on this board that have utilized that and even if you're not changing anything see all sorts of different information on various tabs.

But ideally just need to really worry about getting your baby going properly and you can always get some other data display upgrade stuff later.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[we4Mateo]

If you want to be able to see what a bunch of different things are then one option you could do is get one of the power logger kits that goes on the ECM and get the Scanmaster 2.2 chip upgrade deal. Believe you can still hook up a laptop and whatnot.
Pretty sure that there are other members on this board that have utilized that and even if you're not changing anything see all sorts of different information on various tabs.

But ideally just need to really worry about getting your baby going properly and you can always get some other data display upgrade stuff later.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Bingo. Get the standard TT chip and run the PL. You'll have ease of use and tons of data.

 

[camarox53]

If you want to be able to see what a bunch of different things are then one option you could do is get one of the power logger kits that goes on the ECM and get the Scanmaster 2.2 chip upgrade deal. Believe you can still hook up a laptop and whatnot.
Pretty sure that there are other members on this board that have utilized that and even if you're not changing anything see all sorts of different information on various tabs.
Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Thanks for that information, I ordered a prologger already I am just waiting on it to come in! I was aware that you could connect the prologger and the scanner but I didn't know you could connect a laptop, I will have to look into that one!

Another thing that was drawing me towards the SD2 chip was even if I didn't change anything now and I just let the chip do its own thing, I would have the ability to change things later on if I needed to or wanted to after I learned a little more and I would only have to order the one chip. That was one of the things I was thinking about this chip at least.

Another quick question: I believe Alky is going to be the way I go to fulfill the octane requirement of my motor at some point. I have read some very good things about the "Alkycontrol" kits, are their other kits that you guys would recommend or is this kit the go to for the GN?

Thanks,
Cam

 

[we4Mateo]

...Another quick question: I believe Alky is going to be the way I go to fulfill the octane requirement of my motor at some point. I have read some very good things about the "Alkycontrol" kits, are their other kits that you guys would recommend or is this kit the go to for the GN?

Thanks,
Cam

No, unless you're knowledgeable to put it together yourself, and even then it's not worth the effort relative to maximum performance vs cost vs ease of use; only get an alkycontrol kit from Razor if you want the best now, to keep all kr away, and max effort ability later if you upgrade and want to go real fast. A single nozzle will get you close to 130mph in the 1/4 and the pushers are going faster than that on pump and a single nozzle. Then you can go twin nozzle with the same everything else and go REAL F'IN FAST! His support is unmatched as well.

 

[camarox53]

No, unless you're knowledgeable to put it together yourself, and even then it's not worth the effort relative to maximum performance vs cost vs ease of use; only get an alkycontrol kit from Razor if you want the best now, to keep all kr away, and max effort ability later if you upgrade and want to go real fast. A single nozzle will get you close to 130mph in the 1/4 and the pushers are going faster than that on pump and a single nozzle. Then you can go twin nozzle with the same everything else and go REAL F'IN FAST! His support is unmatched as well.

Thanks!, I may have to get ahold of him at some point then. Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between his and the one online? Does he do anything special, or is he just a nice guy to deal with?

Thanks,
Cam

 

[we4Mateo]

Thanks!, I may have to get ahold of him at some point then. Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between his and the one online? Does he do anything special, or is he just a nice guy to deal with?

Thanks,
Cam

Any razor kit from any vendor i the same. He'll support it no matter where you buy it.

 

[camarox53]

Any razor kit from any vendor i the same. He'll support it no matter where you buy it.

Gotcha, thanks for explaining that!

As a side note: does anyone have an NGK spark plug number they recommend? ; Trying to decide which heat range to go with.

Thanks,
Cam

 

[Nascar83Fan]

What octane gas are you planning on running with? Also how much boost are you looking at running, all variables in what heat range of plug you are gonna run.

 

[camarox53]

What octane gas are you planning on running with? Also how much boost are you looking at running, all variables in what heat range of plug you are gonna run.

I am planning to run 93 octane gas and an alky kit here fairly soon. Boost was going to be in the 15 psi range until I get the alky kit and I was thinking about going into the low 20psi range with the alky kit. Is it possible to get a decent plug that fits both of those profiles?

Thanks,
Cam

 

[Nascar83Fan]

The thing about that SD chip is you'd have to use a 3-bar Map sensor ( you'd have to go buy one, as the Map sensor on TR's was a 2-bar Map sensor ), It's required along with the PL to even use it.
You'd really be better served for quite awhile with just getting the 60lb/hr injectors TT chip combo package and you can always get Eric to reburn it for later. You'll be able to hit your speed goals with that setup and not have to worry about clicking on the wrong thing & end up possibly making a mess that will be quite time and money draining to fix. You're already gonna be quite busy getting everything installed and getting the base tune going with all the things you're doing, and want to do later on.
You could always upgrade to an SD chip later, think Eric might have some deal on possible upgrade, ( you'd have to talk to him to see if he's doing anything like that) as i do know he can reburn chips for people that change their combo's up and he can alter the chip for the changes then send the chip back to them.

As far as spark plug goes, heard a few members on this board use ngk ur5's, ac delco 42's or 43's, Auto Lite 24's or 23's, just make sure they're not a platinum element plug. There's a heat range chart for different range of boost levels and octane level, i'm sure someone on here can point out that info as i am not sure about that part. Copper element one's work just fine in forced induction engines, the platinum and other crazy element type one's don't work so well in forced induction engine applications.

 

[camarox53]

The thing about that SD chip is you'd have to use a 3-bar Map sensor ( you'd have to go buy one, as the Map sensor on TR's was a 2-bar Map sensor ), It's required along with the PL to even use it.
You'd really be better served for quite awhile with just getting the 60lb/hr injectors TT chip combo package and you can always get Eric to reburn it for later. You could always upgrade to an SD chip later, think Eric might have some deal on possible upgrade, ( you'd have to talk to him to see if he's doing anything like that) as i do know he can reburn chips for people that change their combo's up and he can alter the chip for the changes then send the chip back to them.

Humm, I may have to look into that then. If I do go with one of the "normal" TT chips, is their a specific one you would go with? I would assume the one with the 60lb injectors? Also if I do order the chip would you go ahead and get the Alky kit and have him burn it for that as well or would you run no Alky for awhile and get a chip set up for the new injectors?

Thanks,
Cam

 

[Nascar83Fan]

Thanks for that information, I ordered a prologger already I am just waiting on it to come in! I was aware that you could connect the prologger and the scanner but I didn't know you could connect a laptop, I will have to look into that one!

Another thing that was drawing me towards the SD2 chip was even if I didn't change anything now and I just let the chip do its own thing, I would have the ability to change things later on if I needed to or wanted to after I learned a little more and I would only have to order the one chip. That was one of the things I was thinking about this chip at least.

Another quick question: I believe Alky is going to be the way I go to fulfill the octane requirement of my motor at some point. I have read some very good things about the "Alkycontrol" kits, are their other kits that you guys would recommend or is this kit the go to for the GN?

Thanks,
Cam

Off the TT site is as follows in regards to the PL:
The most advanced datalogging scantool available today for the 86/87 Turbo Buicks and 89 TTA's. Connects to USB port on laptop (needs Win98SE, 2000, XP, Vista, Windows 7 or 8). Plugs into the ECM, slight modification of the ECM case is necessary, very easy to do.

Comes with a chip to update a Scanmaster 2.1 to the 2.2 version, so the Scanmaster can be connected to the Powerlogger for faster updating, wideband and boost display.

So yeah you can hook up a laptop to it.

 

[OhioC5]

There's always those pesky FAST systems . . .

 

[Nascar83Fan]

The one that is flow matched for the 60's package. Question is how soon are you gonna put the Alky kit on?
You can always have him turn the Alky on later if it's something you're gonna do down the road versus now deal.
Version wise i'd ask eric at TurboTweak and he can explain whether a version 5.7 chip would be suited for your application or a newer version chip, he knows better than anyone about his chips.
I know he's a member and a vendor of this board, so pretty sure if you email him or leave him a PM either here or at the TurboTweak forum, that he'd get back to you on that.

 

[camarox53]

Nascar83Fan, thanks for the PL info, I will be doing that for sure! As for the Alky kit and how soon I am going to be putting it on, I have no idea yet. I am guessing a few weeks but maybe longer, I am really undecided yet. I will probably get ahold of Eric and see what he recommends. Thanks!

OhioC5, What exactly is the FAST system? I know FAST makes a fuel injection system for carb engines. So I would assume this is some sort of controller that controls our fuel injection systems? Also, is it necessary or something you think I would need?
Thanks,
Cam

 

[Nascar83Fan]

Almost forgot an important question Cam, what type of ignition control module setup were you gonna run?

If i had your 10K budget at my disposal, this is what i'd probably do to my TR with a goal of hitting no faster than 11.75 1/4 mile times( if i ran 11.8's to 11.9's maybe 12 flats at best 1/4 mile runs i'd be ok with that).

Where i am located at here in El Paso unfortunetly 91 octane pump gas is the best that there is, so would be looking at being stuck at 91 and have to get something to boost the power as well as keep the knock away that only 91 octane alone wouldn't quite cut it to reach that theoretical goal range.
She already has a Scanmaster 2.1 in her, so don't need to buy or install that.
I'd get the PL off TurboTweak, install the ver 2.2 chip into the existing Scanmaster.
I'd have Eric burn me at least a ver 5.7 TT chip for the flow match 60lb/hr injectors package on his site, since it'd be difficult for me to get the info off the 42.5's or 50's that are in her to be burned for the ver 5.7 that would replace the older 5.6 TT chip that's in her.( probably would just go do the injector swap and have head room even with meeting the low 12's high 11's goals)
I would go get a reputable reliable adjustable fuel pressure regulator to replace the bosch 0 280 160 233 made in germany one that she has on her so she'd be supplied with plenty of PSI to feed those injectors Etc.
I would get higher volume fuel pump with hotwire kit to keep up with the higher pressue FPR that would feed the bigger injectors and engine properly. ( maybe go dual or double setup on the pump to avoid running into flow issues.)
Make sure the 200-4r transmission could handle the load from that goal range and not be ripped apart.
A good Torque Converter that could work properly with the combo
Would swap out the non locking rear gear carrier with the posi unit carrier etc, that is sitting in a box waiting to be swapped in the rear end housing. ( To get her to have posi )
Would make sure the rear axle shafts were upto the task to handle the upgrades.
Probably would for safety and peace of mind upgrade to the TR6 ICM just to not worry about any potential spark issues unless could achieve such with stock ICM setup.
Make sure i had a new fuel fiter on her, throw a stretch stock location intercooler on her.
Then decide how to squeeze as much as possible out of the stock turbo to hit the goals or go with a slightly bigger turbo than stock, whichever would be feasable to reach goals with.
Would get any internals of engine that needed to be beefed up to withstand that 1/4 mile goal.
Make sure the cam that is in there is upto the task, make sure she's 100% solid and won't be breaking down or blowing up.

Pretty sure i would of went through a good amount of the 10K with all that i mentioned above and wasn't looking to break the 11's.
Whatever was left over out of the money after doing what it took to get reliable and long life out of her, would go into taking care of the cosmetic blemishes.