New Headers for Hot Air?

[ZNix]

I found these headers on Ebay. Someone is finally making headers for our cars! They are a little expensive though...,

Buick Grand National Hot Air Headers - eBay (item 110639965688 end time Jan-31-11 08:12:27 PST)

 

[O SO LO]

Haven't seen HA headers in a while!!
They have some healthy flanges on there- 1/2"...
They would be nice if they opened the ports a little bigger than the Poston headers

 

[RegalT-type85]

I wouldn't spend that much on headers for any damn car, for that I would buy a number of other things. I could almost buy a HA car for that amount in ok shape.

 

[MikeStarner]

my question is would they give you that much power and would they fit with the gbody downpipe? but for the small fortune that they cost they better be nice.

 

[Jerryl]

my question is would they give you that much power and would they fit with the gbody downpipe? but for the small fortune that they cost they better be nice.

Dp or header upgrade?
The limit for the stock ported elbow for a long time has been believed to be 11.5 on a IC’d car.
Recently in the TSA class, the “Big Boy cars” have gone around 121 mph with the stock elbow!
Since the TSA class has already run 121 with the stock elbow, it is clear that the bar has been raised, AGAIN! :biggrin:

To run 11.5 in the 1320’s, you will need to run around 117 mph at 3700 lbs race weight which will require around 58lbs/min on the compressor side.

Now, if you study the only HA available turbo upgrade aka TA33, the rating is 43lb/min.
According to "my calcs", this turbo will “theoretically” max out right at 23 PSI on a HA with ported heads and alky.
At this boost level, it should produce around a 12.16/110 in the 1320’s, with alky. (3700 lb race weight)

In summary:
You need a better pipe than the stock unit, but, you don’t need an integral DP for a TA33 as this turbo will be the greater limit in the example above.
It is true that the HA DP has a few more bends than the ID’d set-up, but 11.9 should be very doable with an aftermarket non integral DP/stock elbow.
Your biggest concern at that level will be the PS header.

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't spend that much on headers for any damn car, for that I would buy a number of other things. I could almost buy a HA car for that amount in ok shape.

I agree, they are expensive.
Note: Although you may not be interested in setting any records, it is the price of admission to play in the HA records arena.

The perception of cost vs performance benefit is also the reason there will probably only be one set of these made for the HA cars.
I am confident that ssome of the recent records have not been set with a $300 header / DP system. :wink:

 

[MikeStarner]

Jerryl there are people out there making other turbos for hot airs now that carbon seals are being customized. I personally know of three different places that offer turbos other than ta33 for our cars.

 

[Boostnitup]

Pricey?

I don't think they are too pricey... ATR's cost around $850 if I recall what I spent for them way back then... That is alot of welding and time in those pieces! Let's face it... the American dollar just doesn't buy much anymore; as such they must charge you accordingly.

Only 11.90's with a TA-33 HMMMMmmm Didn't Marka Gallina go quicker? Her stock turbo had a larger wheel in it.

Run nitrous... It works guys! Go with a small shot 60 to 90 horse. It overcomes bottlenecks and the torque gain is what you are looking for when you use it. Stop focusing on Horsepower alone.

 

[Jerryl]

... Only 11.90's with a TA-33 HMMMMmmm Didn't Marka Gallina go quicker? Her stock turbo had a larger wheel in it. ....

You are correct on the HP focus.

The fastest I was able to find on this board with a TA33 is 12.15. Help me out here bud.
(Chopper at Limit Engineering must be wrong on the 43 lbs/min spec)

Do you recall if the Galinas had the stock elbow and what wheel was in it?
Galina Car Write-up

 

[forcefed3.8's]

I disagree on the stock elbow statement. If I put a stock elbow and DP on my 9.8 car, it will not slow down to 121mph. So if it goes 130mph, will that be the new "limit"? Just because a car goes xxx with a stock part, it doesn't mean a better part won't help. Around 113 with a stock ported elbow is the "limit", if going faster, a better DP will help on an IC car. The hot air cars are different for some reason.

 

[Jerryl]

I disagree on the stock elbow statement. If I put a stock elbow and DP on my 9.8 car, it will not slow down to 121mph. So if it goes 130mph, will that be the new "limit"? Just because a car goes xxx with a stock part, it doesn't mean a better part won't help. Around 113 with a stock ported elbow is the "limit", if going faster, a better DP will help on an IC car. The hot air cars are different for some reason.

True, I won't disgaree with you at all. :wink:
Better parts make it easier to run a given number.

I was merely attempting to clarify that the stock elbow has a limit . . . . which everyone agrees.
What the limit is depends on the combination of parts.
Look at it this way: Does a 12.5 car need an integral WG DP? Depends right?
What we can agree on is that a 3.5" Dp probably will not male a 12.5 much faster, if any.

What is the limit of the stock elbow?
"When" your car runs 150mph with a stock elbow, than that will be the new limit and many will be in disbelief.
Untill than, I believe its 121. :biggrin:

There are many threads where advice is:
Unless your cars run 11.5, donlt waste your $ on a integral DP. Dunno . . . .

Do you know if the TSA class allows an aftermarket integral WG DP?

 

[Jerryl]

Jerryl there are people out there making other turbos for hot airs now that carbon seals are being customized. I personally know of three different places that offer turbos other than ta33 for our cars.

Do you know what size turbo's are offered and are these "bolt in" or are mods needed?

 

[MikeStarner]

The company I talked to said direct bolt ins. They offer what is called a ta34 a ta44 a ta60 and ta62.

 

[MikeStarner]

And whether you run 15s or 11s I'd put the downpipe on just to get rid of the leaks lol. $600 yes but less headaches.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

The company I talked to said direct bolt ins. They offer what is called a ta34 a ta44 a ta60 and ta62.

What company? Brad

 

[MikeStarner]

Gbody

 

[forcefed3.8's]

TSA has to have a stock elbow and DP.

The stock elbow isn't going to limit power, just cost power.

 

[Boostnitup]

Marka Gallina '84 T-type

AMSOIL Racing Testimonials

"Marka Gallina of Gallina Racing in Phoenix, Arizona set a National Hot Rod Association record in the quarter mile with a time of 11.28 seconds at 109.19 mph while driving her 1984 Buick Regal T-Type. Gallina also set a record in a different class with the time of 12.26 seconds at 108.09 mph. She says that, "if it weren't for AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 Racing Oil, these records would not have been possible.""

I looked for other links... used to have many back in the day when mine was "Hot-Air" 11.28 is flying...:biggrin:
________________________________

Here is some other info... Look at other stock class players... http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-videos-picture-library/327263-buick-holset-hx-40-super.html

 

[racemybuick]

brian at Gbody is selling a TA60 set up for a hot air??? carbon seal modified and bolt in??? what about TB adapter?


john

 

[MikeStarner]

I was told they bolt in. I guess would use the adapter.

 

[WFO]

Didn't the ATR hotair headers use the stock elbow and a 2.5" DP?