NEWBIE! 1st start and run 7 years - 20lbs too much boost??

[seedling]

OK,

I just got my Uncle's car ('87 GN - he was original owner) and it had been sitting 7-8 years, maybe? So I did the whole "Spring Cleaning" as was suggested herein! And in doing so I learned a few things about the car. And hopefully you all can tell me where to go from here! (MODS IF THIS IS IN THE WRONG SPOT THEN PLEASE REDIRECT ME AS I AM MORE THAN A LITTLE ADHD HERE AND TOTALLY MED FREE TOO)!

THE MODS:
The car is pretty stock aside from a gutted out cat., an upgraded Turbo (not sure what size but I'm told a GNX Turbo) and it has a Bowling Green Customs over-sized Intercooler (in stock location), some sort of Bowling Green Customs boost control kit (under hood), a boost gauge on the pillar and the chip (that is named after some guy from Illinois is all I know). It does have stock injectors, no fuel pressure regulator and a set of Air Bags! And I'm sure that I missed something.
Oh yeah and my Uncle is still looking for the Scan Master and the Alky Injection Kit.
Anyways I had to put a fuel pump on it to get it going (it had a Bowling Green Customs 50psi unit in the tank). But, now I have it running on some el cheapo Bosch unit - which I will probably replace soon anyways as I must have stuck the float somehow in the install (since the gauge no longer works). At any rate, the car started right up and everything sounds great!

20LBS of BOOST (seems high but I don't know):
The one time I did hit it pretty good (about a 25-30 mph roll), the car took off and of course it broke loose and burned the tires all the way through first and second. And the thing that concerns me most is that the boost gauge on the pillar said 20 lbs. And that seems awfully high to me! And I know that jhanson1750 had recommended that I get a new "turbotweak" chip before I hurt something! Well, now I see why!

And while it did not detonate and it pulled real hard, however I only have six gallons of pure Premium Fuel (93 octane no ethanol / just real gas) and it has a can 104 Octane, plus a can of Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner and a dose of Lucas Fuel Stabilizer (upper cylinder lubricant). But with the 20 lbs of boost I'm thinking that I need race gas (just to keep from hurting anything)!
So what is stock boost? And should I be worried?

Any feedback is welcome and appreciated!! As I'm all ears!! Thanks Guys!!

 

[buddy]

I think with 93 octane, you don't want more than 15-16 lbs boost. Especially without a knock sensor.

 

[V6-Sauce]

stock boost is 14.7-15psi MAX. If u have stock injectors, I think it would be best to replace them with a matching chip(turbotweak has injector/chip combo's)adjustable regulator is a must, Walbro 340 fuel-pump(standard) to support fuel and I would turn the boost lower asap if not running with alky kit, 17psi is safe with 93-94 octane and no alky. A scanmaster is an excellent upgrade that could help u now & later, it shows knock and other things and mulfuction codes for bad sensors.

 

[DavidM]

six gallons of pure Premium Fuel (93 octane no ethanol / just real gas)

There's nothing more real than E85!
Bring the boost back to 15lbs until you get your fuel system and kinks figured out.

 

[seedling]

Thanks for the info and response buddy, who sells knock sensors?

And does anybody know what this Bowling Green Custom boost controller thing is under the hood? (I'll post a pic later).

Thanks for the info and response as well sparko112. And aside from having a new chip burned is there any way to turn down the boost on this thing before then?

Thanks for the info and response as well David M, however I am confused now?? (I normally try to steer clear of Ethanol Fuels in my LS engine, but are suggesting that it is a good thing for a Turbo car)?

Wait if alkie injection is a good thing then perhaps ethanol fuel is too? OK, somebody school me on this one then? I mean do I need to modify anything to run such or what?

Thanks so much guys you all are a big help!!

 

[buickGN3:16]

Caspers electronics & it wires into the ecu, very simple install & will show detonation due to too much boost for the octane amount ur running, A MUST!!!

 

[seedling]

Thanks buickGN3:16!

Anybody recognize this thing??

 

[buickGN3:16]

looks like a old style volt booster, typically sends 1/2 or a full volt where needed if voltage drop is sensed. if im wrong someone correct me here.

 

[seedling]

Thanks buickGN3:16! Also I've found the knock sensor, thanks!

http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=61_62_5_6_10&products_id=597

Now is there any feasible way to turn down the boost on this thing (until I can get a new chip)?

 

[V6-Sauce]

Thanks for the info and response buddy, who sells knock sensors?

And does anybody know what this Bowling Green Custom boost controller thing is under the hood? (I'll post a pic later).

Thanks for the info and response as well sparko112. And aside from having a new chip burned is there any way to turn down the boost on this thing before then?

Thanks for the info and response as well David M, however I am confused now?? (I normally try to steer clear of Ethanol Fuels in my LS engine, but are suggesting that it is a good thing for a Turbo car)?

Wait if alkie injection is a good thing then perhaps ethanol fuel is too? OK, somebody school me on this one then? I mean do I need to modify anything to run such or what?

Thanks so much guys you all are a big help!!

If there's a boost controler in the car now and it's adjustable, manually turn the controller counter-clockwise to lower boost/ clockwise rises boost.

 

[notacarlo]

Do not put canned octane enhancers in the car. If you can post a picture of the vacuum line coming from the compressor housing and where it leads. If its just going to the solenoid on the passenger valve cover than you likely do not have a boost controller and the rod to the actuator itself needs to be adjusted to lower boost. Get a good pump in that car. 255 lph or better, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and identify the injectors. Somewhere on the body if the injector will be a part number. Take a picture of the prom chip and post it up.

Happy spooling!

currently cutting it the F loose

 

[DavidM]

Ok let's back up a bit here.

First order of business, drop the boost back down to 15lbs or so and don't go WOT. Especially since the car has been sitting for 7-8 years. Eventhough you did a Spring Cleaning, there is now way of telling the status of your fuel system's condition or any other gremlins. It is rare (but doable) to run 93 octane and 20lbs of boost especially with an unknown chip or tune. More than likely you experienced detonation, but there is no way of telling how much without a Scanmaster or Knock sensor.

Which leads me to the next step. Find the old Scanmaster or buy a new one. This will let you see vital areas of the engine. Once you get it hooked up. Post your data and we can decipher it for you and let you know what has to be fixed.

Before you go crazy buying parts, you need to set a goal. What is your goal with the car? Someone mentioned to you to buy a TT chip. Which is the right answer, but before you do it is important to know if you are going to stay with stock injectors? The way a user friendly chip like the TT is designed is you tell Eric at Turbo Tweak your current combo. This includes things like Injectors, turbo, converter, heads, what kind of fuel will be used etc. He takes your parts and makes a custom chip that will work for your application. Injectors are the most important part. If you plan to stay with stock injectors then they should probably be cleaned and flowed. Most will recommend 60lbs injectors as they will give you room to grow if you decide to step up in performance. Where I am leading with this is set a goal so that you only buy parts once. Kind of like the Bosch fuel pump that you put in there. Most will recommend a Racetronix 255lph or 340lph or a Deatswerks 300. Knowing your goal will let you know what pump you need.

Post up your location. Maybe there is a member nearby your area that can help you along with the basics.

 

[Mr.Spool]

buy no parts yet,turn the boost down,put the scanmaster on.go into the ecm and see if there is any writing on the chip ex street 93,t1,t2 etc.johns chips worked great but it may not be a bgc chip at all so check it out.

 

[seedling]

Thanks for the response and comments sparko112. I was mistaken about the boost controller as the part in question has been identified as being an "old style volt booster", and it typically sends 1/2 or a full volt where needed if voltage drop is sensed? <<Thanks buickGN3:16!!>> So I can't adjust anything that I know of!

Thanks for the response and comments notacarlo. And please school me on the issue with putting canned octane enhancers in the car? And I'm pretty sure that I don't have a boost controller at this point! However, I will look up the rod to the actuator itself (I downloaded the service manual on CD, however the Turbo section was corrupt for some reason therefore I will try again)! Also, I'm on the pump, regulator and injector issue as we speak (more on that in a second)! However, my uncle confirmed last night that the Injectors are in fact stock / original equipment as well (I know the 20 lbs of boost gets scarier all the time huh)! And I will get a picture of the prom chip and post it up soon as well. Also just discovered / found out that race fuel is $20 bones a gallon nowadays (thanks OBummer)!

Thanks for the response and comments DavidM. I'm researching how to drop the boost back to 15 lbs First and Foremost!~ And I have only eased the throttle down one good time and it lit the tires up and took the hell off! My Jeep runs low 13's and I'm pretty sure this thing was out accelerating my Jeep. And although the Jeep acceleration is a very violent process, however this thing was still moving faster for sure. However, I won't be going WOT anymore until I sort through all of this! And I never felt nor heard any sort of detonation (as the car was just pulling hard the whole time). Although it was only a 25-30mph roll wherein I did a short little blast through first and second (it was on top of the rear tires the whole time). I may just pick up a new scan master and knock sensor right away though. However, you are aiming right at the heart of where I want to be! And that is the planning phase (laying it all out as far as what I need based upon what I want the car to do). So let me lay that out.

THE GOAL:
Earlier (in another post) I mentioned wanting to go 11's. And while it is a long story as my buddy got banned from one of the local drag strips (for going too fast without a cage). However, I guess he was way over the legal limit which means I was mistaken about the time. In that, I now know that 11:49 is the NHRDA limit. Although I would still like to be faster than that (that way I can just just dial the car back some is all). Now having said all of that, I want the car to be rather streetable and still run in the 11's.

The reason that I have not already purchased a new chip (and had it here yesterday even) is that I did discover that it takes some planning and / or calculation to put all of this together. And that is why I put this junk Bosch 50-60psi fuel pump in there (as I had trouble finding anything else in stock anywhere and I just wanted to get the car going). So I know it's junk and I know that I need a good one. All of which is why I'm here now! In that, I know that I need the following:

Scanmaster
Knock Sensor =
Fuel Pump =
Fuel Pressure Regulator =
Fuel Injectors = #
TT Chip =
Alcohol Injection Kit =
A set of slicks =

And I understand that they all these parts will be very specific to my "need for speed!" So if I want to have a "streetable 11's car" then what specific parts do I need? And again thanks DavidM for recognizing my struggles here! In that, I know do cars (but I know Jeeps much better) and I am mechanically inclined and all as well. However, I don't know these cars at all! So I'm on a hyper learning curve here! Anyways thanks so much fellas! And while I'm hyper anyways, however this car really has me going! I mean, I am reading and studying and looking up every spare moment of the day researching!

Also FYI, while I was typing all of this an old hot rod buddy of mine called back and gave me some names of some folks who fool with these cars. So I did manage to locate some other GN owners here locally as well. Therefore I plan on running the car by and having this guy (who has been racing them for years) take a look at what I have. That way, I will know for sure and I can also better answer some of these questions!
AGAIN THANKS SO MUCH FELLAS! AS YOUR HELP AND RESPONSES HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO SAY THE LEAST! SO AGAIN MANY THANKS!!

 

[notacarlo]

Octane boosters leave an orange film deposit on the combustion chamber, spark plugs (sulphates). This can foul plugs prematurely and create pre detonation as it build up. Pull a plug....is it orange?

A service manual will not show an adjustable wastegate actuator. Is the rod connected to the turbine threaded at its end? If so, that's where the adjustment is made. The shorter the rod the higher the boost and vise versa.

Happy spooling!

currently cutting it the F loose

 

[we4Mateo]

Why do you need a new knock sensor? Is it missing?

And if buying injectors and a chip, go 80s, that's the latest that works with a stock ecm.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[DavidM]

THE GOAL:
Earlier (in another post) I mentioned wanting to go 11's.
Scanmaster
Knock Sensor =
Fuel Pump =
Fuel Pressure Regulator =
Fuel Injectors = #
TT Chip =
Alcohol Injection Kit =
A set of slicks =

Scanmaster = Yes!

Knock Sensor = The Scanmaster has the ability to see knock. Money can be spent elsewhere.

Fuel Pump = Racetronix 255lph. Comes with full hanger assembly.
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPS-G7W255&eq=&Tp=

Hotwire for Fuel Pump = Provides ample power source to Fuel Pump.
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPWH-006&Tp=

Fuel Pressure Regulator = The Kirban piece seems to be a favorite with good results.
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/pr...ADJUSTABLE+FUEL+PRESSURE+REGULATOR+#6547.html

You will need a Fuel Pressure gauge to adjust fuel pressure. Easiest is a gauge at the fuel rail.
http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=478&osCsid=fd800ba487941b99dc0616292e3607b1

Fuel Injectors = 60lbs Injectors from Turbo Tweak with Standard 5.7 chip (Best bang for your buck).
If running Alky this is the time to let him know. If you select a 93 octane chip another chip would be needed for Alky.
http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1015

TT Chip = Same link as above. TT 5.7 Chip. Very user friendly. Another option can be Bob Bailey's chip.

Alky Kit = http://alkycontrol.com/

Slicks = A better choice would be Drag Radials for street driving.



As you can see most of these parts are supportive parts. Meaning they are there to support your goal.
On a stock motor I would look into replacing the timing chain and valve springs.
Also you will need a Boost gauge to track Boost. Another gauge to consider can be an Oil Pressure gauge. In regards to the Fuel Pressure gauge, you can use an in cabin one so that you can check rise of fuel pressure to rise of boost. For every PSI of Boost, the Fuel pressure should rise as well. 1:1 ratio. You will need a fuel pressure gauge regardless to adjust pressure whether its a cheap one at the fuel rail or one mounted inside. The choice is yours. Some mount it on their windshield/hood???

These supportive parts will let you run and start adding power safely. From there you can get a good "basis" of where your car is at before throwing parts at it. For your goal of 11s, all that would be needed would be bolt-ons. Read around, talk to EXPERIENCED vendors and members. They will not steer you wrong.

Oh also forgot, make sure you use ZDDP with every oil change. In a boosted application oil will get contaminated more often so make sure you are also changing it out earlier than normal.
http://www.gbodyparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=767&osCsid=a447e62f1dd8e7df0689d48a903e56be

Some websites to visit

ArizonaGN.COM
RJCRACING.COM
FULLTHROTTLESPEED.COM
BUICKGN.COM
GBODYPARTS.COM
KIRBANPERFORMANCE.COM
NOS4GN.COM
ALKYCONTROL.COM
TURBOTWEAK.COM
BAILEY-ENG.COM
TAPERFORMANCE.COM


GOOD LUCK!

 

[Pronto]

The Scanmaster will monitor your knock. That is why it is highly recommended. Ha, got treed!

 

[Pronto]

11's is a lofty goal for starting out. With the current parts (maybe replacing the chip) you should be able to go low 13s. Get a good pump in there, not that Bosch one. Work slowly and monitor your knock!

 

[seedling]

Thanks notacarlo that's great info to know there!

Thanks we4Mateo!

Thanks DavidM - you're post reads like a doctors prescription pad (expect that It is clearly written / perfectly understandable and / or something I want to hear)!! You kind sir are the man!! I actually have a boost gauge, oil pressure and temperature gauge and an under hood inline fuel pressure gauge. Also, I'm not sure what chip this is exactly (going to uncover her and pull out of the garage tomorrow and find out). However, my uncle said it was some guy out of Illinois, maybe (I'm wondering if it is not out of Michigan but who knows)? Either way, is it possible to re-burn this chip if I send it to them (so I can have one for each or no)? Also the car has an old set of MHT Racemasters on Super Lites that I can swap some new drag radials onto as well.

Thanks Pronto! And sorry, as I should made myself a little more clear! In that, I honestly don't expect 11's right out the gate! It is just that DavidM had asked me for my goals / plans for the car. And that is what I hope to dial it into one day! Although I do hope that dialing the Turbo back down won't slow it down that bad! In that, the car has been in the 12's for sure (can't remember where exactly). But, that was on drag radials with an upsized turbo, bigger / aftermarket (bowling green customs) stock location intercooler, a chip, upgraded fuel pump on av gas (and apparently way too much boost - back in the day)! So do you think it will fall back that hard? (Now you have me worried that it might not be as fast as my Jeep)!

Again thanks so much guys! You all are the best!!