newbie ripped off

[Tom Tom Turbo]

Everyone has that deal that didn't go the way they thought it would, but you gotta just stick it in the past. This guy is not going to cut you a check for $300 because you wanted X amount of money for your stuff. You could have just as easily said no and taken your stuff on the 3 hour ride home....and then probably sat on it for 3 months. You could also look at it as you got $200 for it instead of it sitting in your garage taking up space. If you didn't have plans to use it, then at least it is gone.

However, I am still sympathetic to you because I've been ripped too, sometimes you gotta turn it around on someone else! There is a kid that talks trash about my car all the time, but he recently bought a 3.8 T-Bird and I sold him a set of plug wires and a coil from my 91 5.0 Mustang. I never told him they would fit, but he never asked if they wouldn't fit, he just said I'll take 'em. Did he get ripped, no he just didn't do his homework.

 

[gnsrule]

Originally posted by mighty mouse
first the block was used - but completely machined and ready to be built - bored .040 over,new pistons,yes the crank was cut

With that being said, its a a questionable setup. For a stock street drivein motor, maybe. .030 seems to be the max for modified setups, and a cut to who knows what undersize ?? Very questionable for a performance build.
As far as the $200 thing, thats buying and selling. If you thought it was worth more, you shouldnt have sold it. He didnt think it was worth more, so he didnt offer.
BTW, a 3hr drive from Morocco to the NW Burbs ?? Musta been during rush hour then cuz I make it from my door to 41 in 1 hr 20 min.

 

[GNX Guy]

I can understand your frustrations. Guess I have to ask if you told him ahead of time that the block was .040, cut crank, etc?? .040 is kinda on the edge for these. Can be ok, but I'd pass on that, even for a street motor. I could not get a dime for a std. low mile 85 block.

If you had others that would give you $500.00 why in the world did you not refuse his offer and go home and sell it for $500.00?

If I remember correctly, you offered to drive to his place, correct?

He made an offer and it was accepted. Plain and simple. I don't see how he "ripped you off or screwed you"

Like I said before I've been in your shoes many times and I am more mad at myself than anything else for letting things go for way less than I should have. I think this is the case here as well. It does not give me the right to bad mouth those folks in public.

Not trying to give you a hard time, but a lot of things just don't add up here.


Joe

Originally posted by mighty mouse
you bring up alot of good points gnx guy.
first the block was used - but completely machined and ready to be built - bored .040 over,new pistons,yes the crank was cut,an yes the rods were reconditioned,it did have a new cam in it,along with all the new bearings required and oil and freeze plugs,new high volume oil pump. So as I stated it was a new motor - unless you wanted to go to a buick dealer and get a crate engine - if you can possibly even do that ??????

My point I was tryin to make was this guy not only mislead me - but had me drive all the way to his work. I had two others that would have paid me the 500.00 for the motor - yes they were hot air guys. so archie basically screwed me out of a motor that all he had to do was bolt on the heads and rest of motor and go. When was the last time you done all that machine work and got a motor that far ? - how much did it cost you? I bet it was alot more than 200.00.

like I said before - I cant do anything about it - but I can warn people about this guy - maybe they deal with him - maybe not - its there choice. but they have been warned about him if they have read this post. that was my point I was tryin to make

but like I told someone who e-mailed me about this post - I have talked to alot of guys with a good reputation and I wouldnt think twice about dealing with them. But you can rest assured - I will make sure of what I am buyin and the actual value of it.

ya know i meet you at the midwest challenge. I believe it was a chicagoland chapter member that introduced us. But I'm not going to mention her name. and I think you were at the world of wheels werent you?I dont remember what she told me.But I'm sure we'll meet again one day at a meeting - who knows.

mouse

 

[mighty mouse]

ok - first of all, I started this tread to let other newbies know that there is a chance of being takin advantage of. not sayin that everyone would - but jus a few might. Most everyone that I have dealt with one this board has been pretty good - meaning fair.

everyone has there opinions of what happened - and thats fine. I said in the first post that I couldnt do anything about it now and I dont expect anything from this post. Like I have said before - its just a warning to other newbies to the board. As far as selling anymore parts on this board - well its jus not going to happen.

I have been told in e-mails, sent to my addy, to jus "sell my gn and go cry on a ricers shoulder - business is business!!!" . To that person - you can go fuk yourself - nobody is gonna make me sell my gn. over a e-mail or in person. I have wanted onea these cars for better than 15 years - now I have one and it is not going anywhere.

now if you decide to e-mail me over this post - dont - I am deleting them unread.

all this jus because I wanted to warn others - next time I'll not say anything! oh wait - there wont be a next time

mouse

 

[SinistrV6]

Originally posted by mighty mouse


I have been told in e-mails, sent to my addy, to jus "sell my gn and go cry on a ricers shoulder - business is business!!!" . To that person - you can go fuk yourself - nobody is gonna make me sell my gn. over a e-mail or in person. I have wanted onea these cars for better than 15 years - now I have one and it is not going anywhere.

all this jus because I wanted to warn others - next time I'll not say anything! oh wait - there wont be a next time

mouse

Just to make sure everyone knows..... I didn't and wouldn't send an e-mail such as that described above. All of my responses are open to public scrutiny. What a crappy thing to tell a new member of our community/hobby!
After re-reading my post I may have come across as unsympathetic. Nothing could be further from the truth. As someone who got ripped off by a now thrice-banned member of this board I feel like I speak from experience. After 2 years and 2 lawyers I finally got most of my $1000 back (also a motor deal). Rest assured, that I go to great lengths to make sure that won't happen again.
I wouldn't have wanted to just "chalk it up to experience" either. But the lesson I learned was easily worth $1000. It's probably saved me that much 4X over in the 2 years since. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but in the not-so-distant future you'll be able to see that $300 loss as a bonafide bargain.

 

[whitehot84]

Originally posted by GNX Guy
FYI, its usually not usable for 86+ turbo applications. ie, different oil valley and no oil return boss and of course a different metalergical makup. Thus making it not usable. I certainly would NOT want it in my car. If they were JE's, chances are you sold him a cut crank that may be cut .010 or more.

Joe

Joe. My GN has an '84 block with the stock crank, stock pistons and rods. It has been freshened up with rings, bearings and freeze plugs. I have ported 87 heads and an 87 top end. Topping this off with a PTE 54 turbo and front mount I run right at the 11 sec mark. I have been running this motor for 5 years and it has yet to fail me.
The misconceptions cause these blocks not to sell not the facts. I will use one anytime.
I think someone took advantage of the new guy and that's all there is to it. He will obviously be smarter for it but $300 is a lot to pay for that lesson.

 

[PhatCaprice]

Originally posted by GNX Guy
One other thing I just thought of. When folks say turbo pistons, we generally are refering to OEM stock pistons. So that fact that he said they were JE's and not turbo pistons can generally be accepted. I would have stated the same had I seen them.

So what are you saying, that whenever turbo pistons are mentioned, people always assume that they're stock? Isn't a turbo piston just a forged dished cut piston? Which JE makes by the way.


Now I just gotta work an angle on Archie at getting the AK he's selling.

 

[twin 93 svt]

Here is the other side of the story, Which knowing Archie I feel is the truth!

http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8956#post8956

 

[SinistrV6]

That goes a long way toward explaining what happened here. As always, there are TWO sides to the story. I'm glad that Archie has posted his in a public forum.

 

[turbot2496]

Mighty mouse.... Shame on you for this ruse. Archie posted pictures of the parts and his side of the story with attached pics speaks volumes. I would apologize for this ruse if I were you to save what little credibility you might have left. No one ripped you off but yourself. I don't care how many hours you drive, you show up to my place with parts that are not as advertised and you will be driving back home with them. Sounds like Archie did you a favor and you stabbed him in the back.

 

[Mike Licht]

So lets recap, you had 2 guys willing to pay you $500, you sold it for $200 to another guy and your pissed off. I have not spoke to him but I am pretty sure that Archie would sell it back to you for the $200 after seeing the pictures, why don't you ask him?
Mike Licht

 

[blackbird]

WOW!!

I understand you're new to TR's...but G@D DAMN man!! You were trying to sell that crap as fresh??? It seems to me that it's your "buddy" that screwed you over bro. In truth, i don't personally know anyone on this site but what i do know is that the majority of folks here will help in anyway possible and i doubt anyone here would have the balls to screw someone out of a done deal and still have the face to show up on here. It's pretty sad that your own friend would hand you that garbage as payment, you made $200 bucks off the deal and your bud still owes you $300.

 

[sixgun86gn]

What says those pics are what he bought from this guy?Now if it were me I would have been man enough to address it here instead of somewhere else like a chicken****.But thats just me.I know I could pull plenty of parts out and take pics and say the same stuff.I don't beleive either is telling the whole truth.

 

[mighty mouse]

good cover there archie

how can there be paint from my truck when I have a bedliner in it ????

after posting this and a few members of a car club has read it - they told me I should have asked about ppl from chicago area - they would have been glad to fill me in on them. seein as how archie was once a member there. and they had seen the parts I sold. so everyone can believe what they want to - it really dont matter to me

mouse

 

[irockwithdirt]

I don't think its that complicated...........he doesn't want it, your upset for selling it for $200

No if's and's or but's........buy it back from him.

Sounds like both parties would be happy this way and peace can return to the turbo buick community

 

[Jesse]

[/QUOTE] FROM TURBO ARCHIE:
In order to understand the full situation this guy just put me in, you have to go back to how he got the motor.
MM’s friend owed him about $500. This friend offered a killer GN short block in lieu of the $500. I’m shure the guy told him this was a great deal due to the $600 J&E’s and NEW crank. Figuring he could use this killer short block in his new GN project, he accepts. At some point, he decides this motor won’t work in his GN and puts it up for sale, trying to get his $500 back out of it.

Orig add as follows:
“ for sale 1984-85 short block, bored .040 over, je pistons,factory rotating assembly, new chain, new factory cam and lifters, crank is new - not undercut. block is not painted. asking 500.00 obo”
Last edited by mighty mouse on January 15th, 2004 at 01:41 PM

I run an NA 4.1 with a modified oil pan for the return, so I was very interested when I first seen this add as this would be a direct bolt in replacement motor for me. I will admit that I was going for the “Killer” deal considering the $600 J&E’s and NEW crank alone were worth more than the $500 asking price.

But as my father always says, if it seems to good to be true……

We agree to meet halfway after work, but I was called into an unplanned meeting and didn’t know if I would be able to leave in time to meet him halfway. He was laid off and agreed to leave early and just drive all the way to my work.
After they got to my work, they start to drag the parts out of the bed of the truck and the first thing I do is grab a piston. Sure enough, they are new NA pistons. Completely useless to me. Now at this point, before I go any farther, the deal is broke as far as I’m concerned, and we start from scratch. Everything he listed about the motor doesn’t mean **** to me. So I fumble through the Box-O-Parts to see if there is anything I could use. Thinking that at least he has a good turbo .010” crank, I started to show him how to identify a turbo crank. I was having a hard time locating the rolled fillets on the rod journals. (Keep in mind we were doing this out side in -25 weather while we both froze our nuts off). He removed the main cap, and I showed him what a rolled fillet looked like. Great!!, I figured it was a turbo crank cut .020”. Something I’d still use, but just not worth as much as I have 3 other turbo cranks at home. I take into account every thing laid out before me and realize I don’t need any of it. I have a shed and garage full of worthless stock rusty oil pans and soiled * NEW * timing covers. The rods are great, but again I have more than I can count. The new cam is also great, but who knows if it’s even a turbo cam?
Thinking I could use the .020” crank, freezing my nut’s off, and feeling bad that the guy got ****ed on this motor and that I just had him drive all the way up to me, I totally felt obligated to offer him something for this crap. I couldn’t tell him “Sorry, have a nice 3 hr trip home” even though he total miss lead me on this motor. I had to figure what the most I could right off as a complete loss and at the same time I didn’t want to insult him with what I thought it was worth. So I told him the most I could give for it was $200 convincing my self that I could use the crank, ect…. After he excepted, I even asked him 5 times if he was sure he wanted to do the deal cause I didn’t want him to think he was getting ripped off. I thought I was helping him out and trying to make the best out of the situation as he said he was laid off.
Thanks to a few friends forwarding me the link, I find out what he posted about me screwing him. First of all, I thought it was TB.COM’s policy to resolve these things off-line. Well I can see nothing has changed over there because he didn’t try to contact me at all to resolve this. I would have been glad to take my loss of $200 back if he thought he got screwed. Instead he posted that ****. Now I don’t blame him for being upset that he got ****ed. I don’t even blame him for not understanding that these parts are worthless. I am, however, totally disgusted in the manor he tried to resolve it, by wrongfully blasting my name all over the TB site. What’s worse than that is the encouragement from the other members to flame me. Only a few could see that there was something wrong with his story.
To top it off, I went out in the cold garage to mic the crank to prove it was cut .020”. It came out to .010”. Confused, I pulled my spare “shop fresh” .010” cut turbo crank and it mic’s out the same. But my crank shows deep rolled fillets on the rod journals. I went back out to the cold garage to really look for the rolled fillets and there are none!! I should have caught this, but under the conditions (-25) and that I considered this a loss anyhow, what difference does it make.
Now I can only guess that, after we made our deal, MM went back to the friend that gave him the motor . He probly told him that the motor was not what he said it was and wanted the other $300 he was out. Somehow, this guy put some Jedi Knight mind trick on him and turned every thing back around, convincing him that the motor was worth $$$ thousands $$$ and that the guy he sold it to (me) took advantage of him.

So, really, what did I get for my $200??

I understand that this is a big misunderstanding, which is why I took a few days to calm down before I replied to his post. As far as those people that were quick to respond to his thread, encouraging him, with out finding out both sides of the story. I call you people the “Herd”. We all know how many sheep herders it takes to run a herd.

The pic's are as follows:

1) The piston on the left is NOT a turbo piston.
2) The block on the right is what I consider a fully machined, shop fresh, ready to assemble block, the block on the left isn't.
3) Box of *Fresh* NEW* parts
4)* NEW * oil pump (note: optional crush resistant oil filter
5) These are what rolled fillets look like.
6) This is what an N/A crank looks like (note red paint from draging it out of his truck.

END OF QUOTE.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have cut and paste this reply from Turbo Archie that I read at T6p.com.

I was waiting on Archie to reply to mighty mouses thread here at TB.com, But it looks like he has decided to not post on this board .....its his choice (Iam sorry he feels that way but I can respect his decision on the matter) , So this is why I cut & pasted his reply to these accusations posted here in hope to put a closer to this thread.

 

[qwknuf6]

Hey MM????????

Originally posted by mighty mouse
good cover there archie

how can there be paint from my truck when I have a bedliner in it ????

after posting this and a few members of a car club has read it - they told me I should have asked about ppl from chicago area - they would have been glad to fill me in on them. seein as how archie was once a member there. and they had seen the parts I sold. so everyone can believe what they want to - it really dont matter to me

mouse

The pics are on T6P.com
Are those pic's of the parts you sold to Turbo Archie ?
.If those in fact are the parts, Turbo Archie didnt rip you off ,he paid 199.98 to much

 

[iamjeff]

he still got ripped off, just not by archie...

-jeff

 

[sixgun86gn]

Why would a guy buy stuff he knows he can't use?If he did not want the parts why did he buy them?Thats why I think hes lying.

 

[1badTTA]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
Why would a guy buy stuff he knows he can't use?If he did not want the parts why did he buy them?Thats why I think hes lying.

Why would someone sell something for $200 when he was asking $500 and then come onto a BB and B!tch about it and call the buyer a scammer when it was the "buddy" that he got the stuff from that is the only one who misled anyone???

As always there are at least 2 sides to every story, and this one has 3 sides and we still haven't heard anything about "buddy" that sound like the shady character in this deal. Mighty Mouse, tell us his name so we all know not to deal with him.