Newbie with shudders

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Good morning guys/gals, I’m new to the 200-4R world and looking for help. I purchased a 2004R that was originally in a 1985 Olds OG 307. It had been sitting for 2+ years in guys garage and has unknown mileage. Dropped the pan and was not concerned with any smell or any large build up of sediments, have replaced the TCC solenoid, pressure switch, filter and fluid (2x now) I added the external pressure switch and have wired up based on instructions from Monster transmission. I’m running a BTO plate and cable to a 3x2 intake in a 56 Chevy, a nearly stock 327 cruiser, no horsepower extremes here. It’s a big heavy car. Initial transmission pressure were low so upgraded to .500 booster valve kit, this brought pressures up to “normal” range I believe for this used transmission.

I’m getting a substantial shudder at low speed 10mph? between 1-2 shift and seems to slightly flair when making that shift while driving a low/normal speeds in neighborhood. And when coming to a stop sign it doesn’t seem to downshift back into 1st and usually kills engine. When I’m out on the open road it shift fine (after shudder) through gears and up into OD, when I nail it, it’s great and shifts good and firm about 4K. What is my Next steps.? New Torque converter? Or transmission shop/rebuild?

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

No computer controlling transmission or diagnostic code reader,
I’m totally old school

 

[77 cruiser]

What is your minimum TV pressure?

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

I will have to go back and look at my notes, initially they were lower than the “standard ranges” I have researched, but with larger .500 booster valve they were better. I can recheck them and see, are you working on a theory Jim?

 

[77 cruiser]

Well if the line is too high at min. TV it won't shift to 1st when come to a stop. That sounds like one of the issues you're having.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

I will retest and get the pressure measures, I know that proper TV set up is important, but in theory would loosening (adjusting toward carb) decrease tension on cable and as a result reduce pressure?

 

[Charlie Gaudet]

Could be bad TCC solenoid. Should always check resistance of them before installing. Had a few with a dead short with my old transmission. It sound like it’s not unlocking the converter when coming to a stop and stalling it. Also sounds like more than one issue here. If it’s flaring shifts then no amount of TV adjustment is going to fix that. Prob have smoked clutches.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Thank you I did replace the TCC solenoid thinking along those lines too.
If line pressure is too high, or too low wound that cause the shudder?
Or is that also a symptom of burnt clutches/ bands?

 

[Charlie Gaudet]

Thank you I did replace the TCC solenoid thinking along those lines too.
If line pressure is too high, or too low wound that cause the shudder?
Or is that also a symptom of burnt clutches/ bands?

I had the shudder before. It was because my speedometer cable wasn’t hooked up. It was hunting for Lockup. No signal to the VSS and it didn’t know what speed to Lockup at. The flaring is the clutches I’d be willing to bet. Just from experience. No way am I am expert. I’d contact Steve Vaillancourt or Dave Husek. Both are extremely knowledgeable

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Speedometer is connected, I’m not running a computer with the 200-4R so don’t think that’s it. Does anyone know is a shudder typically caused by too high line pressure OT too low pressure? Am I crazy thinking the torque converter could be bad?

 

[Charlie Gaudet]

Contact Steve Vallaincourt or Dave Husek. You’ll get the right answer.

 

[Steve V]

Speedometer is connected, I’m not running a computer with the 200-4R so don’t think that’s it. Does anyone know is a shudder typically caused by too high line pressure OT too low pressure? Am I crazy thinking the torque converter could be bad?

Jeff a shudder? Please give more details. Does it happen cold or does it have to get warm and happen on a decel coast down? Does it do it on upshifts, steady throttle.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Steve V,
I’m getting a substantial full car shake shudder at low speed maybe 10-15mph? It’s always When auto shifting between 1-2 gear and seems to slightly flair at end while finishing making that shift, all this while driving with low/normal throttle pressure speeds in my neighborhood. I’ve always waited until engine/temperature was warm , water temp showing approximately 180 degrees.

I’ve never experienced shudder at any other speed, or between any other gear changes, while up shifting or down shifting. I manually shifted it from 1st to 2nd and it shuddered as well, but much shorter, then nothing else as I went to 3rd and eventually into OD. When I’m out on the open road it shifted fine (after the 1-2 shudder) up through all gears and up into OD, car seemed to run fine and smooth at 40, 50, 60’s . From a stop when I nail it, it’s great and shifts good and firm about 4K. Stop it while driving and it Will downshift just fine and take off as expected.

But when coming to a stop sign it doesn’t seem to downshift back into 1st and usually kills engine.

I purchased a 2004R that was originally in a 1985 Olds OG 307. It had been sitting for 2+ years in guys garage and has unknown mileage. Dropped the pan and was not concerned with any burnt smell or any large build up of sediments, I have replaced the TCC solenoid, internal pressure switch, filter and fluid (2x now) I added the external pressure switch and have wired up based on instructions from Monster transmission. I’m running a BTO plate and cable to a 3x2 intake in a 56 Chevy, a nearly stock 327 cruiser, no horsepower extremes here. It’s a big heavy car. Initial transmission pressure were low so upgraded and installed to .500 booster valve kit, this brought pressures up to “normal” range I believe for this used transmission. I am going to connect the pressure gauge and get current pressures.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

https://streettechmag.com/2015/04/01/2004r-swap/#prettyPhoto

In doing more research I came across an article talking about replacing the TV spring with a Longer TV pressure spring to be used with their BTO system (I didn’t get this) but do have a Shift HP kit that probably does. Says that helps with sticky TV Valve and sloppy 1-2 shifting (sounds logical).

 

[Steve V]

Steve V,
I’m getting a substantial full car shake shudder at low speed maybe 10-15mph? It’s always When auto shifting between 1-2 gear and seems to slightly flair at end while finishing making that shift, all this while driving with low/normal throttle pressure speeds in my neighborhood. I’ve always waited until engine/temperature was warm , water temp showing approximately 180 degrees.

I’ve never experienced shudder at any other speed, or between any other gear changes, while up shifting or down shifting. I manually shifted it from 1st to 2nd and it shuddered as well, but much shorter, then nothing else as I went to 3rd and eventually into OD. When I’m out on the open road it shifted fine (after the 1-2 shudder) up through all gears and up into OD, car seemed to run fine and smooth at 40, 50, 60’s . From a stop when I nail it, it’s great and shifts good and firm about 4K. Stop it while driving and it Will downshift just fine and take off as expected.

But when coming to a stop sign it doesn’t seem to downshift back into 1st and usually kills engine.

I purchased a 2004R that was originally in a 1985 Olds OG 307. It had been sitting for 2+ years in guys garage and has unknown mileage. Dropped the pan and was not concerned with any burnt smell or any large build up of sediments, I have replaced the TCC solenoid, internal pressure switch, filter and fluid (2x now) I added the external pressure switch and have wired up based on instructions from Monster transmission. I’m running a BTO plate and cable to a 3x2 intake in a 56 Chevy, a nearly stock 327 cruiser, no horsepower extremes here. It’s a big heavy car. Initial transmission pressure were low so upgraded and installed to .500 booster valve kit, this brought pressures up to “normal” range I believe for this used transmission. I am going to connect the pressure gauge and get current pressures.

That's probably the band trying to apply , my bet is the drum is glazed and band is burnt. Could be servo hanging up in bore(un common) as well.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Drum glazed and band burnt equals rebuild time I’m guessing?

 

[Steve V]

Drum glazed and band burnt equals rebuild time I’m guessing?

Jeff, yes no fix for that other than opening it up. Improper TV cable geometry will kill these fast, besure you have correct brackets/cable for your setup.

 

[TexasT]

Are you running the stock top draw filter? Are you running a quart over full on the stick? the fluid could be sloshing away from the pick up on acceleration. Filter could be clogged up and not allowing a full dose of fluid. The gauge on it while doing some "testing" will tell.
As far as the stalling, I would have to guess that is the lock up solenoid not unlocking. Do you have it wired through the bake pedal switch? If not I might not "know" to unlock.
If you are using the stock servo that band is probably scorched. I hope you can reuse the drum. Also you should look into upgrading the pump when you have it apart with the hard rings, stiffer sonnax slide spring, larger rev boost valve and the 700r4 spring for the boost circuit. I like the carbon stock width band in mine and yours should be fine with it if the drum is in good shape. If you get it over hauled make sure the builder knows how to set the clearances. They are ALL important and it wont go far without.

 

[Jeff Chevy Oldsmobile]

Steve, thanks for your input, I feel I have the TV properly set up. I’m using the BTO plate and cable for my set up. Might be much deeper than I feel comfortable with transmission surgery.

TexasT I am running a stock opening on top filter, and 1quart over, my shudder is at such a slow speed fluid slouching I think is highly unlikely. I dissected the filter that was in it when I purchased it as well as last one I replaced, and found no large chunks of anything unsettling, I will try to get the gauge on it this weekend to have real pressure numbers to add to the story.

I kind of ruled out the TCC lock up or not releasing as I experienced the same shudder and stop sign engine dieing even when transmission was totally unplugged from the harness. I appreciate your input on upgrades when rebuilding it, that might not be too far down the road for me.

 

[77 cruiser]

If the it's killing the engine on stops the TC has to locking or internally messed up some how.