Non-progressive kit

[86SS86LS]

What are the disadvantages to a non-progressive alcohol kit? Someone local to me has an older SMC kit for sale cheap. In general, how are they different than a progressive kit and would I expect to see higher HP gains with a progressive kit?

 

[QUIP'6']

What are the disadvantages to a non-progressive alcohol kit? Someone local to me has an older SMC kit for sale cheap. In general, how are they different than a progressive kit and would I expect to see higher HP gains with a progressive kit?

the disatvantages are that the kit doesnt know how much boost the motor is giving thefore the motor can bog because it is getting tooo much alky the progressive kit is boost sensitive and increases pressure as boost increases using a map sensor leaving an easier tune and better performance

 

[1 RARE T]

If you have your "on" setting high enough , that is'nt a problem. I almost never have a bogging issue because at less than 15 psi. the system's not spraying. If my foot's in it, making boost, it's too the floor.

Easier to tune? Better performance?

I disagree.

Better technology than old style ........sure.:wink:

 

[Razor]

If you have your "on" setting high enough , that is'nt a problem. I almost never have a bogging issue because at less than 15 psi. the system's not spraying. If my foot's in it, making boost, it's too the floor.

Easier to tune? Better performance?

I disagree.

Better technology than old style ........sure.:wink:

I disagree. Find me guys going just as fast with a simple system. Look how many 10 second Turbo Regals now exist on pump gas. How else can someone run 30 PSI boost at 26+ degree's timing.. it requires LOTS of alcohol. You cannot switch on LOTS of alcohol at one shot.. the motor noses over.

For a 12-13-14 second car and someone that doesnt look at maximizing what they have.. a simple system works "In Some Cases". As long as its layout is done properly. If it doesnt.. then a lot of time, resources, and energy was spent

I went 11.6's on a simple system and hit a road block boost and knock wise.. this is why what is currently available was developed.

The old saying.. been there.. done that.. that was 4 years ago. The technology and data is there, whether you chose to embrace it or not.. thats a personal choice.

 

[yullose]

How else can someone run 30 PSI boost at 26+ degree's timing.. it requires LOTS of alcohol.

Muahahahaha... THAT's what I'm talking about.

I cait wait for my dual nozzle setup to arrive.

Hehe... 30psi.

Do I hear 35 ?

 

[Razor]

Do I hear 35 ?

Also refered to as "Second Screw" Autometer 30 PSI guage

 

[yullose]

Also refered to as "Second Screw" Autometer 30 PSI guage

I'll be sure to remember that...

Or... better yet.

Part# ATM-4304 from Summit.

OR...
Part# ATM-4305

OR... Pure insanity. Part# ATM-4306

 

[1 RARE T]

Razor, I have nothing but great respect for you and your system but lets face it not everyone wants to run 30psi. If your alky volume/pressure is not enough then sure, you're 100% correct. Not that I would be stupid enough to get into a debate about alky systems with you.:smile:

Most cars running correctly can go to full boost so quickly that for the average street car that wants an alky system, most will work fine.

I absolutly agree that yours, in my humble opinion is the best. I was'nt trying to kill a sale for you.

I just don't agree that my car would go any quicker with yours over the other if it is tuned properly/maxed out right now. If I ventured into 30 psi. territory and my system could'nt keep up then ok. I don't think that's what we're talking about here though.

 

[Roc87]

I had one of those simple systems and no matter how I tuned, the quickest the car would go was a 12.2, the pump just couldn't supply enough alcohol to suppress knock if I pushed any harder than that. And since it didn't spray enough maybe that's why I never could tell any initial bog with the system, I was very happy with it for what it was. UNTIL I ran C16 and was able to up the timing, then it ran an 11.87. I sold that kit and put in Razors kit, and ran an 11.92 (on a much warmer day, than the 11.87) with nothing in the tank but 91 octane.

If I'm going to see an 11.5xx at altitude, I may end up having to get one of those Autometer ATM-4304, is that a 2 5/8" gauge?

 

[PhilM]

A progressive kit will always win; when you start requiring lots of alky and your boost is still varying, that 'bog' will also slow down spoolup even further. I really don't know exact times or power increases from going from a single stage to a prog. setup. When you get a progressive kit, you can simply try for yourself (idk why, but ...) by just turning on the system with a steep slope (idk what 'slope' is called on other kits...) You'll see the difference yourself.

 

[Grumpy]

Also refered to as "Second Screw" Autometer 30 PSI guage

hmmmm you guys are using a boost guage ??? we keep it floored till the car stops pulling

 

[Razor]

Razor, I have nothing but great respect for you and your system but lets face it not everyone wants to run 30psi. If your alky volume/pressure is not enough then sure, you're 100% correct. Not that I would be stupid enough to get into a debate about alky systems with you.:smile:

Most cars running correctly can go to full boost so quickly that for the average street car that wants an alky system, most will work fine.

I absolutly agree that yours, in my humble opinion is the best. I was'nt trying to kill a sale for you.

I just don't agree that my car would go any quicker with yours over the other if it is tuned properly/maxed out right now. If I ventured into 30 psi. territory and my system could'nt keep up then ok. I don't think that's what we're talking about here though.

No probs.. just remember your at 114 mph in the 1/4. Try and get it to 120

Its not about how quickly it goes into boost.. but how the metering happens. And then boost creep is another. In a game of feet.. its all about the inches. And its not about the 30 PSI either.. cuase you'll max out the 51 boost wise before that, whereas it will stop pulling.. then you start adding timing to make the motor wake up.. guess what.. your out of volume. I ran your same ET's with a 51.. so been there.. done that

 

[yullose]

If I'm going to see an 11.5xx at altitude, I may end up having to get one of those Autometer ATM-4304, is that a 2 5/8" gauge?

Nope, all those I listed above are 2-1/16" gauges. Pulled 'em right from the Summit website.

 

[86SS86LS]

I would be using the alky kit on a mostly stock setup - other than fuel system and exhaust upgrades. I'm just looking to run around 20 psi boost and provide a cushion against knock. For my application, if the non-progressive and progressive kits would yield similar performance gains than I will go with non-progressive. However, it seems that I would see higher HP gains out of the progressive kit even for a mild application.

 

[salvageV6]

You won't need a progressive ramp at that level.

And if you wanted to add a second nozzle you could do it and make it progressive and run a lot more boost, for what you are doing that isn't even a consideration it seems.

Just make sure what you are buying works as advertised and you are good to go for your goals. :smile:

 

[SFITurbo]

I have both systems. Progressive is the way to go if you want to get the most out of your motor. For straight up street brawling, I have no complaints on the SMC/hybrid system on my vurtually stock car.(set to turn on at 5psi) I still bet the wife mine will take hers in the 1/8:biggrin: After that I'm history. Face it, you ain't gonna stop at 20psi.

 

[67turboCamaro]

I ran 6.41 in the 1/8 with a DIY non progressive kit. No bogging, no problems.:smile:

 

[QUIP'6']

I had one of those simple systems and no matter how I tuned, the quickest the car would go was a 12.2, the pump just couldn't supply enough alcohol to suppress knock if I pushed any harder than that. And since it didn't spray enough maybe that's why I never could tell any initial bog with the system, I was very happy with it for what it was. UNTIL I ran C16 and was able to up the timing, then it ran an 11.87. I sold that kit and put in Razors kit, and ran an 11.92 (on a much warmer day, than the 11.87) with nothing in the tank but 91 octane.

If I'm going to see an 11.5xx at altitude, I may end up having to get one of those Autometer ATM-4304, is that a 2 5/8" gauge?

heres 2 5/8 40 psi. Gauges, Analog - summitracing.com

 

[Roc87]

RIGHT ON!!!! Time to lift some heads

hmmm, thinkin I'll order a 2nd nozzle for the alky and crank the boost to around 38 :biggrin: