not sure what to get..your opinion?

[tford]

Just FYI, if you go with the trans am and ever need to do a motor swap, it has to come out the bottom so if you don't have a lift, get ready to pay. If the grand prix is a gtp, I agree with doubleD about modding it instead. Swap over to turbo for $3000 and your in business.

 

[87turbottype]

Im 21, and just bought my WE4 this summer and am currently reviving it. If you've never owned a turbo car, a GN is not one to start with especially if you dont know much about them. There is a ton more work needed to keep them on the road compared to N/A, and that means more money. I have owned 2 turbo cars now, my first being a 91 300ZX Twin Turbo. Still have it, but trying to sell it. I also owned a 90 300ZX N/A, and let me tell you how much easier the N/A was on the pocket compared to the TT. The reason I bought the WE4 is because I know what is involved on a turbo car and I have been around them all my life as my dad bought his 86 GN in 87. If you want a turbo car, DO NOT jump into it and do ALOT of research. It will cost you big $$$ in the long run compared to the TA. And you mentioned rust on your Monte? 80% chance you will have the same problem with the GN being in Indiana.

 

[beenen]

the GP is only the GT trim with the NA 3800 with 120k miles on it and counting

Yeah rust is a bitch up here especially up in northern Indiana where I'm from. My neighbor actually is a body guy and he said he could fix up the holes I got in my monte but I just don't feel like fixing that up..at least not at this time

but it sure doesn't help the TA when I got to come home everyday and pass this guy's GN sitting out everyday..thing is a beauty

 

[Turbo-Archie]

You guys have me confused ..

I got my first GN when I was 18. I drove it everyday in the summer.

I'm not sure what all this talk about "keeping it going" is all about. If he spends 14K on a GN he should be set and the car shouldn't need anything.
Its not like he is buying a project car for $2500..

If he buys the right car for that money and its not an everyday driver, I would consider the GN (that is if you think you can handle the power.


First things first, you need to test drive a few $14K GN's before you make any decision...


..

 

[Turbo-Archie]

but it sure doesn't help the TA when I got to come home everyday and pass this guy's GN sitting out everyday..thing is a beauty

Not the one on RT65? That one has been sitting there for years..



..

 

[Adrian87]

beeneen, I'm 30 and have owned 4th gen f-bodies since I was 16..

95 TA LT1 6 speed, bolt ons, 8.30 in the 1/8th
98 Z28 LS1 6 speed, mostly stock, 13.60 at 107 in the 1/4
98 TA LS1 cam, LT's, all bolt ons, full suspension, 382 rwhp, never had it at the track..

While owning all these cars, I've always had the GN, I will never give it up, however the amount of money I've had to sink into it vs. the Fbodies doesn't compare..3 engines, 3 tranny's, always something to replace/repair..now G-bodies are great looking cars, and there is nothing like the sound of a TE45A at 28 psi, but if you want something that runs reliably all the time, and gets beat on all the time, stick with the v8 cars..with the Buick's, you're always wanting more from them, and it does not come cheap. Ported heads, roller cam, billet main caps to withstand high boost, all the MACHINE WORK involved with the block, you will have the engine in and out more than once to get the car the way you want it. Texas heat and high boosts don't mix too well. I need to upgrade the cooling system, fans, tranny cooler, now the trans is slipping after only having the car tuned for under a year and never being at the track.

I'd say it mainly depends on how deep your pockets are and if you can afford to have some down time. If this is your only car or daily driver, stick with the Fbody. I've got so much money tied up in this car, it will take decades for the car market to catch up where I could sell it and not break even, right now, I'd be lucky to get 10-12k for the car, and I probably have that in the drivetrain by itself over all these years..

With that said, I love my GN, it's my baby, etc..but I do miss the reliability of the LS1, high rpm, V8 sound, looks, handling, interior, etc..

Now I've gotta spend about $1500 on a trans rebuild, the car really needs another paint job after 7 years, needs interior work, etc..and will never be a show car.

My .02.

Edit: that sounded like I'm dogging my car. I'm not, I love this thing to death, and truly enjoy working on it, it's fairly old tech and you can actually see what you're doing under the hood. I'm just saying if this is your first HI-PO car and it needs to start when you want it to start, stick the the more reliable Fbody.

 

[beenen]

Not the one on RT65? That one has been sitting there for years..



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theres one here locally.. I actually got a picture of it because there's a little game over at gbodyforum called the spotted thread where you post up pics of g bodys and see if it may be members on the site lol..its the one I pass everyday..always see it out and never in the garage



thanks for that write Adrian

 

[Turbo-Archie]

, I'd be lucky to get 10-12k for the car, and I probably have that in the drivetrain by itself over all these years..

.

It's a good write but he proves my point.

You can find a car with all the work done to it for $14k.

We are not talking about you building a car. Find the right one done and you will be set.

..

 

[Steve]

I am amazed to hear everyone talk about thier trouble "keeping a GN going". I bought my first GN when I was 19 in 1990. I drove the car everyday for 40K miles and never replaced a motor or transmission or any major maintenance. The car ran 11's in 1991 which was fast back then because that was before aftermarket turbos or bigger injectors. I raced it every weekend and it was the most dependable hot rod type car I have ever owned. I had a WH1 T-Type with a very simple rebuild with only center steel billet mains that still used the stock 150k mile crank, rods and pistons that ran 10's for 5 years with no motor problems whatsoever. If you guys are going thru multiple engines and transmissions you are not doing something right or you are having the wrong people build them. I have had 4 different 10 second TR's over the past 8 years and zero motor failures and only one transmission failure and it was a broken input shaft. I have only had two motor problems ever in a TR. I blew a head gasket on my first GN due to a bad ECM in about 92 and the other was due to the oil pump relief valve getting stuck in the housing and letting the oil bypass. My buddies with 10 second 4th gen f bodies have way more failures than I do with my 10 second turbo Buick!

 

[Adrian87]

You bet. I bought mine over 8 years ago, pretty much bone stock, original paint, engine, tranny, needing pretty much everything, for $5500. I was amazed it made the long trip home from (I think it was Kentucky) to Arkansas..I think it just got hot a couple times, but nothing major. If you have 12-14k to spend, then you will surely be able to find one that is done RIGHT and not have to spend a dime on it for a long time to come. If possible, have a local GN guy with a lot of experience come check it all out..I doubt most mechanics at what ever shop really know what to look for on these cars. One thing that's always scared me is when they sit for a while, even with all synthetic oil, I'll hear some chatter for a couple seconds when the engine fires. If I run it every day, nice and quiet, no problem...but I've had more than one engine that has done the rattle. After I had that TA all built up, I beat the living hell out of the car, pulled strong to 7k, for at least 10k miles. It had 92k on it when I sold it and I did notice the oil pressure was going down a bit. No longer at 40 idle, maybe 30. Was always a bit nervous about that and didn't want to deal with pulling the engine. If you leave an Fbody fairly stock with bolt ons, no problem getting into mid/high 12's, and with a 6 speed it's a massively fun DD. I miss the stick sorely, since my regular DD is now an auto. I need to get into something with a stick.

 

[ZNix]

I am amazed to hear everyone talk about thier trouble "keeping a GN going". I bought my first GN when I was 19 in 1990. I drove the car everyday for 40K miles and never replaced a motor or transmission or any major maintenance. The car ran 11's in 1991 which was fast back then because that was before aftermarket turbos or bigger injectors. I raced it every weekend and it was the most dependable hot rod type car I have ever owned. I had a WH1 T-Type with a very simple rebuild with only center steel billet mains that still used the stock 150k mile crank, rods and pistons that ran 10's for 5 years with no motor problems whatsoever. If you guys are going thru multiple engines and transmissions you are not doing something right or you are having the wrong people build them. I have had 4 different 10 second TR's over the past 8 years and zero motor failures and only one transmission failure and it was a broken input shaft. I have only had two motor problems ever in a TR. I blew a head gasket on my first GN due to a bad ECM in about 92 and the other was due to the oil pump relief valve getting stuck in the housing and letting the oil bypass. My buddies with 10 second 4th gen f bodies have way more failures than I do with my 10 second turbo Buick!

Have you ever had an MAF fail? Cam sensor fail? These are common problems that could leave someone stranded and without a vehicle. These parts are 25 years old after all.. I think this is more like what they are warning against. That and it is very expensive IF something goes wrong compared to an LS1 or any modern V8 out there. These cars have a learning curve... One that can be deadly to our motors..

 

[Turbo-Archie]

Have you ever had an MAF fail? Cam sensor fail? These are common problems

I have been running turbo buicks for 20 years.. How old are you again??



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[ZNix]

I have been running turbo buicks for 20 years.. How old are you again??



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Was I talking to you?

 

[Turbo-Archie]

No, your talking to the guy thats been doing it LONGER than me..


Ok, so you don't want to talk about your age, how about this.. Did you spend $14K on your TR??


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[ZNix]

No, your talking to the guy thats been doing it LONGER than me..


Ok, so you don't want to talk about your age, how about this.. Did you spend $14K on your TR??


..



..

Wait wait.. So why is this turning into a pissing match? I spoke my opinion about why these cars may not be reliable for daily driving as an LS1 TA. They have 25 year old parts that are known to fail? I don't get why you are being so hostile..

 

[charlief1]

No, your talking to the guy thats been doing it LONGER than me..

Ok, so you don't want to talk about your age, how about this.. Did you spend $14K on your TR??
..
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Archie, he may be a kid but he's coming from his perspective. You've been in cars for a long time and he started from scratch. When you got your car factory parts were still available and now they aren't. Not trying to pick a fight but I will point out that someone with out knowledge of a vehicle other than maybe changing oil or very simple things like checking the tire pressure, these are not the perfect car to own. Zacks not stupid by any means but he does bring a valid view to this thread. Even if beenen spends 14K on a car there's no guarantee that he's gonna get a cream puff. The cars are old now and in some cases over valued by the current owner. Just saying here.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

I'm not trying to be hostile, but you are answering the thread as if the kid said he only had $5000 to spend on a project car.

You can buy a real nice built car for $14k that shouldn't have these problems you bring up, though you make good points.


..

 

[ZNix]

I'm not trying to be hostile, but you are answering the thread as if the kid said he only had $5000 to spend on a project car.

You can buy a real nice built car for $14k that shouldn't have these problems you bring up, though you make good points.


..

Just to clear up some things.. I bought my car for 8500. And I am 17 years old. I have probably another 1200 into it with go-fast parts.. This is a lot to me and maybe why things seem so expensive at the same time. I will agree that spending 14k should get you a really good car. Even still, there will be no guarantee that the car is not going to leave him stranded one day because of a bad part. I have a second vehicle that I can drive if I ever find myself in a pinch, so having this vehicle is not a big deal. I just wanted to get all the points across about these cars so he can make an informed decision.

I meant no disrespect towards you, Archie, or any other member. If I came across as so, I do apologize.

 

[Steve]

Have you ever had an MAF fail? Cam sensor fail? These are common problems that could leave someone stranded and without a vehicle. These parts are 25 years old after all.. I think this is more like what they are warning against. That and it is very expensive IF something goes wrong compared to an LS1 or any modern V8 out there. These cars have a learning curve... One that can be deadly to our motors..

I did have a MAF fail once in the early 90's. A MAF failure puts the car into limp mode but wont leave you stranded although you wont get any where fast! Since Bob Bailey came out with the translator and I started using LS1 MAF's I have not had a failure since. A $14k Turbo Buick will be a pretty nice low mileage car or a car that most things(like the MAF) are already upgraded. I sold a 65K mile WE4 here on the board a few years ago(when the values were high, it would go for less now with the economy) for $15900 that was a two onwer car that ran 10.70's and every part on the car had been upgraded and was extremely dependable. Every vehicle has problems from time to time. If you get a LS1 car with a 6 speed you can blow up the rear end with a stock motor and stock tires. If you get an 4l60E car and run it hard at all you will be very close with the local transmission shop! I have a 9k mile WS6 Ram Air T/A that had a TPS go out and put it into limp mode but that doesn't mean its a bad car or problematic. I bought a brand new Jeep a few years back that came with water in the gas and I did not make it home from the dealership but I am not anti-jeep either!

 

[ZNix]

Every car does have its issues. What I am saying is, the parts are more likely to fail after 25 years of being in use. The MAF issue may not leave you stranded, but its not going to allow you to keep driving it until you get another MAF right? Thats why I am pushing the LS1.. You can probably go to any parts store and buy an MAF off the shelf right? Not so with these cars.. So he has to wait until one gets shipped.. What does he drive in the mean time? Like I said above, I just want to get all the negatives and positives of these cars out there so he can make the right decision. I will say one positive thing. THESE CARS ARE MONSTERS :biggrin: