Alright so I bought an engine off a guy this fall (its actually a 350 Buick V8 but from what I understand the oil pumps between the V6 and 350 are pretty much identical) it had sat outside in the rain waiting for me to come pick it up so when I drained the oil I got a nice chocolate milkshake out of the thing. I then decided to just re-gasket the entire top end, I got it apart, looked really clean with no signs of damage or rust at all, so I put 'er back together and dropped it in my Regal, Just got around to finally firing it this weekend, fired right to life but I noticed my oil pressure gauge was bottomed, quick inspection revealed the line was empty, I pulled the filter and it was bone dry as if it just came out of the box. So obviously the oil pump isn't pumping (oddly the fuel pump doesn't move fluid either but I'm not real concerned about that, just an excuse to put an electric on it). I will get a priming tool in it probably tomorrow to confirm or not but if the pump is bad can I just rebuild it or do I need to get a whole new unit? What may have caused it to fail like this (the motor supposedly ran good when he pulled it, it fired right up when I sprayed ether in it and it doesn't smoke so I don't have any reason to doubt the guy)? And what is this Vaseline trick I've read about?
Oil Pump issues.
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fastblackracing
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The buick pumps being mounted externally can lose their prime, just like a house out in the country with a well pump. You will need to pull the filter, and the bottom cover plate off the pump, its held on with 6 3/8 bolts on the v6 and packing it and the gears with grease or vaseline will allow it to reprime with a priming tool [recomended] or when you fire it up again. their are other things that could be wrong but start with this, there is a gasket on that cover plate that will most likely need replaced also.
i just broke a long screwdriver, took the camsensor out, and put it on the drilll and spun the hell out of it with the turbo oil feed line off to see when it primed,
i tried 2 turnovers with vaseline and still didnt do it, so i didnt wanna burn my bearings up
i tried 2 turnovers with vaseline and still didnt do it, so i didnt wanna burn my bearings up
fastblackracing
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What did you find out redrat?
You need to pull the pump apart and check to see if you smoked the timing cover casting running it dry. I'd also drop the pan and remove a few bearing caps.
If you drained milkshake oil out of the engine it was ran with water in the oil. If rain water got in the engine while it was sitting, that would have came out first, and then black oil would have followed. The two won't mix without help from an outside source.
If you drained milkshake oil out of the engine it was ran with water in the oil. If rain water got in the engine while it was sitting, that would have came out first, and then black oil would have followed. The two won't mix without help from an outside source.
Thanks for everybodys' input. I pulled the pump apart, everything looked to be in order, it just had usual markings from a 100,000+ miles of wear, I packed it full of Vaseline, put a priming tool on it and it started moving oil. Fired the engine up and it started pumping away. It still doesn't make as much pressure as I would like it to, about 25 pounds at idle when its cold and goes down to about 15 or so once it warms up and spikes to about 40 if I free rev it, but at least I know its working now
Those are actually kind of odd numbers. 15 at idle is great but maxing out at 40 is pretty low. What weight oil did you put in it.
Look under the 1" nut next to the filter. With any luck you have gaskets doubled up or a really thick gasket there. If you can thin that down you can pick up a few PSI everywhere except idle.
Look under the 1" nut next to the filter. With any luck you have gaskets doubled up or a really thick gasket there. If you can thin that down you can pick up a few PSI everywhere except idle.
I have 10-30 oil in it with one can of that restore stuff. I don't think the gasket is too thick, Its the one that was on it before I took it apart I just siliconed it on before I put it back together. And that 40 was just on a free rev with it in park, I haven't done a full throttle run under any load with it yet, it may pick up some more doing that.
turbo nasty
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As Earl stated 15 heat soaked in gear with 10w30 is pretty good.
So if your heat soaked at 15 psi in gear you should increase in psi at a minimum of 10 psi per thousand rpm from idle.
Idle at 800 rpm 15 psi oil psi
At 1800 rpm should be 25 psi
At 2800 35 psi etc.
Thats your minimum psi increases per 1 k rise in rpm and on the high end the max oil psi will be dictated by your relief spring rating. Are you getting this psi rise? I dont recommend revving the engine to redline in park or neutral tho, you can see to around 2800. Higher than that rpm then you can find a vacant backroad and just keep in 1st and just light throttle up to 4800 and see your increase.
So if your heat soaked at 15 psi in gear you should increase in psi at a minimum of 10 psi per thousand rpm from idle.
Idle at 800 rpm 15 psi oil psi
At 1800 rpm should be 25 psi
At 2800 35 psi etc.
Thats your minimum psi increases per 1 k rise in rpm and on the high end the max oil psi will be dictated by your relief spring rating. Are you getting this psi rise? I dont recommend revving the engine to redline in park or neutral tho, you can see to around 2800. Higher than that rpm then you can find a vacant backroad and just keep in 1st and just light throttle up to 4800 and see your increase.
If you have a fast responding oil pressure gauge it should read the same in the driveway as it does on the road. Ideally the pressure should jump to damn near full pressure as soon as you get off idle. With unknown bearings clearances, milkshaked oil, etc... it might take a few oil changes to get a final consistent reading.
Have you changed the oil enough times to get rid of all traces of milkshake yet? Also, you said you siliconed a gasket and reassembled it. Are you talking about the round gasket under the 1" relief spring nut or the gasket between the filter adapter and front cover. If it's the latter, go ahead and get another gasket on the way. I've NEVER seen one seal up with any kind of liquid sealer on them.
Have you changed the oil enough times to get rid of all traces of milkshake yet? Also, you said you siliconed a gasket and reassembled it. Are you talking about the round gasket under the 1" relief spring nut or the gasket between the filter adapter and front cover. If it's the latter, go ahead and get another gasket on the way. I've NEVER seen one seal up with any kind of liquid sealer on them.
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Earl, doesn't that pump use selective thickness gaskets to "tune" the gear/cover clearance??
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
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Not earl but here it is.
http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1704
FWIW I have never had a turbo regal go to near max oil psi right off idle before always near or above 5K.
Is that what your getting Earl?
If so is that standard volume gears?
http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1704
FWIW I have never had a turbo regal go to near max oil psi right off idle before always near or above 5K.
Is that what your getting Earl?
If so is that standard volume gears?
Never had an issue with those shims unless surfaces were not flat. I have several out there in severe including my own.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
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No mine is better than ten psi per 1K. Was just throwing that scenario (psi rise per 1 k) out there as a basis.
But im not at peak psi at 2 k rpm FWIW
