Oiling for Stage I

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Jeff Rand
Dave, if you look at the picture you will see a pocket in the plate that would house part of the taller gears. This "pocket" takes the place of a spacer. Also you do not have the option of using stock gears with this setup. On my stage 1 I used the stock pickup and blocked off the external pickup on the plate (the port at the far end of the plate away from the adjusting screw).
Jeff

THanks Jeff. My block doesn't have ANY internal pickup or delivery features, so I'd have to fab a port in the bottom of the pan to run a pickup line to, and then just send the outlet up to the top front delivery port on the block.

 

[Mac in SD]

Dave, the bottom line in your case is this: if you're not going with a dry sump setup, then you need the Duttweiller pump. Just get a stock replacement front cover (not HV, and make triple-sure it's drilled out), and you're set.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Originally posted by TurboDave
THanks Jeff. My block doesn't have ANY internal pickup or delivery features, so I'd have to fab a port in the bottom of the pan to run a pickup line to, and then just send the outlet up to the top front delivery port on the block.

Dave, on my pan I have a 1/2" pipe that exits to a female pipe thread. I used some -12 Earls fittings with their external oil screen. This screen can be disassembled for inspection and cleaning.
Jeff

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Dave, the bottom line in your case is this: if you're not going with a dry sump setup, then you need the Duttweiller pump. Just get a stock replacement front cover (not HV, and make triple-sure it's drilled out), and you're set.

Hey Dude

Now I'm confused again. Make sure what's drilled out?
THe front cover and block wont be doing any fluid transfers directly, it all has to be external.

 

[NJTurbo]

$200.00 I paid $400.00 for mine.

 

[EightSecV6]

Originally posted by Jeff Rand
. I think the cost is about $200.
Good Luck,
Jeff

I will take 10 for that price......

 

[Mac in SD]

Originally posted by TurboDave
Hey Dude

Now I'm confused again. Make sure what's drilled out?
THe front cover and block wont be doing any fluid transfers directly, it all has to be external.

Yo, Dave. That's what I thought, so I didn't pay much attention to it. BUT: I had a passage between the pump cavity and...God!how do I describe this? ... there's a round hole in the pump face right next to the pump inlet slot. That needs to be drilled through so that it is open to the pump inlet slot inside the housing, or the Dutt. pump won't work. Mine had a foil-thin blockage - not drilled all the way - and it wouldn't prime. Had to disassemble, and wouldn't have noticed it except that Neal knew what to look for. It was a new GM front cover, too. Just make sure that the passage from that round hole to the pump inlet slot is clear, and you're okay.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Yo, Dave. That's what I thought, so I didn't pay much attention to it. BUT: I had a passage between the pump cavity and...God!how do I describe this? ... there's a round hole in the pump face right next to the pump inlet slot. That needs to be drilled through so that it is open to the pump inlet slot inside the housing, or the Dutt. pump won't work. Mine had a foil-thin blockage - not drilled all the way - and it wouldn't prime. Had to disassemble, and wouldn't have noticed it except that Neal knew what to look for. It was a new GM front cover, too. Just make sure that the passage from that round hole to the pump inlet slot is clear, and you're okay.

Just wanted to revive this thread for a bit. You made reference to making sure to get a stock front cover and NOT a HV piece. I thought all the front covers were the same, and the only thing that made one a HV piece was the addition of the longer gears and a spacer plate?????? Or am I wrong?
Couldn't a get a new front cover off ebay, the one with the HV pump kit, and then just discard the spacer plate (because the dutt system has the gear pocket)?

Wish I could picture what you're talking about above but I can't I've got the front cover in hand, looking into the pump housing trying to figure out what you're refering to?

 

[Ron Tarabori]

Don't forget there is one other option. A single stage external mount pump. Mounts like a dry sump pump but is a wet sump deal so you eliminate the storage tank and the extra plumbing. I'd still go with the dry sump. I just fired up my used spare engine which I am going to start the season with. Still has 60 lbs hot at idle. Hope to have the new engine ready in a couple of weeks. Bumped the compression up to 15 to 1 this year. Next project is to see how much more stroke I can get with the odd fire crank. I think with the smaller rod journal I can get up to 3.90. The V8s get harder to keep up with evey year. Dave, I'll drop you a e mail later this evening. Ron

 

[ijames]

Dave, the HV front covers are "thicker" where the gears go, so the longer gears fit without the spacer plate.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by ijames
Dave, the HV front covers are "thicker" where the gears go, so the longer gears fit without the spacer plate.

Oh, OK that makes sense. The ones the guy is selling on ebay are stock front covers with HV pumps that have the spacer plate.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Ron Tarabori
Don't forget there is one other option. A single stage external mount pump. Mounts like a dry sump pump but is a wet sump deal so you eliminate the storage tank and the extra plumbing. I'd still go with the dry sump. I just fired up my used spare engine which I am going to start the season with. Still has 60 lbs hot at idle. Hope to have the new engine ready in a couple of weeks. Bumped the compression up to 15 to 1 this year. Next project is to see how much more stroke I can get with the odd fire crank. I think with the smaller rod journal I can get up to 3.90. The V8s get harder to keep up with evey year. Dave, I'll drop you a e mail later this evening. Ron

Thanks Ron. I think Ive seen those pumps you refer to. That would allow me to run the SII front cover without all the hardware (external tanks) of the Dry Sump system? right?

I didn't think to ask, but I'll assume the SII front cover does NOT need any rework for the gear drive to fit??

Did you get my email a day or so ago?

Also forgot to ask what the ratio is on those rockers you're sending me?

Thanks!!!!

 

[Kansas T]

Originally posted by Ron Tarabori
Don't forget there is one other option. A single stage external mount pump. Mounts like a dry sump pump but is a wet sump deal so you eliminate the storage tank and the extra plumbing. I'd still go with the dry sump. I just fired up my used spare engine which I am going to start the season with. Still has 60 lbs hot at idle. Hope to have the new engine ready in a couple of weeks. Bumped the compression up to 15 to 1 this year. Next project is to see how much more stroke I can get with the odd fire crank. I think with the smaller rod journal I can get up to 3.90. The V8s get harder to keep up with evey year. Dave, I'll drop you a e mail later this evening. Ron

I'd like to know more about this external mount pump for a wet sump. Any pictures? Where can they be found/bought? I'm looking into other options for my new motor, I want to stay wet sump, but dont like the stock pump setup. Any info on this would be helpful. Thanks

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Kansas T
I'd like to know more about this external mount pump for a wet sump. Any pictures? Where can they be found/bought? I'm looking into other options for my new motor, I want to stay wet sump, but dont like the stock pump setup. Any info on this would be helpful. Thanks

Go here:
http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/pump.html

and click on wet sump pumps

 

[Ron Tarabori]

Probably the biggest dissadvantage to the single stage external mount pump is its price if you have to buy a new one. Shop the race car flea markets and some of the guys on the net that sell used circle track stuff for a used one. They shouldnt be too hard to find. They are a very simple set up. Run off a gilmer belt and have one pressure and one suction stage with a adjustable pressure relief valve.