Opinions on valve springs for hyd roller cam/lifter/rocker street motor

joed

Member
Mar 6, 2002
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Buffalo, NY
I'm finally finishing a freshened stock shortblock, low 11 second street motor for 100k miles;) we hope. 206/206 HYD roller cam, Tom at Champion used PAC 1201's I believe on my full port iron heads. Track maybe 3-4 times per year, may turn it up for a high 10 second pass one day.
Is there a good reason to change valve springs and hardware for less pressure, lighter retainers...etc?
Looking forward to hearing opinions and reasons pro and con.
Thank you!
 

Turbo6inKY

Short Guy
Jun 18, 2001
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blog.andrewdscott.com
Install a spring appropriate for the camshaft. Required seat pressures should be on the cam card. Get a spring as close to that without going under and call it done.

Lighter retainers made of titanium will reduce mass in the valvetrain, which frees up a little power and lessens the load on the cam bearings, but not by much. And they have zero effect on what spring rate you need to use, and they might not last 100K miles. You'll have to at least inspect them annually and probably after every race event. At the RPMS we run, I don't think the lighter retainers gain enough to justify the cost and trouble.
 
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turbo nasty

Turbo Dojo / MNTR
Jul 19, 2001
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Your current springs may be fine, you can get them checked at a machine shop. If you do replace them or check them be sure and reinstall them at at least .060 from coil bind. That cam sounds like the off the shelf comp and is a good cam. Itll be out of breath around 5300ish rpm so you dont need to try and wind the engine out to try and get more out of it. Your sig says Molnar lifters...sure you meant Morel. They are horeshit and are fail prone and should be replaced, Go with johnsons!
 
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Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
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low 11 second street motor for 100k miles;) we hope. 206/206 HYD roller cam, Tom at Champion used PAC 1201's I believe on my full port iron heads. Track maybe 3-4 times per year, may turn it up for a high 10 second pass one day.
years ago i ran 10s on the stock cam with 100lb valve springs spun easily to 6000rpm.you should be fine.
 

joed

Member
Mar 6, 2002
166
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Buffalo, NY
Thanks to all for great input. Per website COMP recommends either of these beehives - 26915-12 105# seat, 313#/in rate, or 26918-12 125# seat, 367#/in rate, they don't say how to choose. The PAC 1201's are 140# seat, 540#/in rate. So they are quite a bit heavier / stronger than what COMP suggests.
no lifters in my sig.
 

earlbrown

runs with scissors
May 26, 2001
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The problem with Comps ''tech support'' is they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

I called them ONE TIME and asked what poundage they wanted to see for a certain cam. They started with ''you need to buy this part number from us''. When I told them I had longer valves and have done a few things to the heads and I wanted to know what POUNDAGE they wanted to see on the seat, and what POUNDAGE they wanted to see over the nose for an engine that will only see 6000 and may or may not have beehive retainers..... The response was ''give me your installed height and I'll tell you a part number for springs you can buy from us''.


It took me a while, but I finally figured out that they go by lift to recommend springs. If you really push them to get it right, they go by lift and installed height. (as far as I know, the recommendation will be the same).

They DO NOT account for things like ramp rate, intended RPM, rocker ratio, altering the mass of the valvetrain, etc... They are only there to sell crappy mexican springs and they cannot give you valid information so you can get a quality spring like a PAC.
 

joed

Member
Mar 6, 2002
166
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Buffalo, NY
Good to know, great input. I'm glad to have your thoughts and opinions, especially including the "why's" for future since this is a pretty popular cam and subject. I was concerned that the PAC 1201 may be a "one size fits all" approach and that perhaps it wasn't a quality choice for my goals. Thank you for your contributions. Feel free to continue to add your thoughts.
 

joed

Member
Mar 6, 2002
166
10
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Buffalo, NY
Now, the heads are still in the packaging from Champion. Do the springs need to be "set up" at a machine shop that TurboNasty mentions? I'm not sure what's involved...Champion website states they are set for a .500" max lift hydraulic cam. The 206/206 cam card states .498" "gross valve lift"
 

turbo nasty

Turbo Dojo / MNTR
Jul 19, 2001
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Now, the heads are still in the packaging from Champion. Do the springs need to be "set up" at a machine shop that TurboNasty mentions? I'm not sure what's involved...Champion website states they are set for a .500" max lift hydraulic cam. The 206/206 cam card states .498" "gross valve lift"
Speak with Tom at champion and see what they are set up for vs the web site
 

wb_7354

Active Member
May 31, 2008
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Mine were supposed to be ready to go out of the box. They were not. I wouldn’t run them without going through them. Depending on when they were made you definitely want to check the valve guide clearances. We’ll be pulling my heads to have them checked.


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joed

Member
Mar 6, 2002
166
10
18
Buffalo, NY
I appreciate you guys offering your real world, real cars, real parts, real experiences with real turbo-Buick V6's. This group is so specialized and the exchange of information is so valuable for us. I did call Tom today and sent him FB message but I heard he's been ill. I'll take them to a shop and make sure they're shimmed and pressure set correctly. Thank you!
WB_7354 if you get yours ready, I'll take them too, I'll give you a hand pullin'em!...again!