Picking Turbos and Injectors for a V8

[88hurstolds]

I am looking to run twin turbos on a 442ci DX Olds with 8.5 CR and 4" stroke.
Looking to generate 800hp and run on pump gas or possibly E85 through a 102mm throttle body and FI.
What size turbos would work for my application?
What size injectors should I use?
Rear is a 3.73", 4l80 trans, not sure on which roller cam or converter yet.

 

[robzombie]

Why are you asking this question here??

Why not ask this question over on www.gbodyolds.com

I'm sure you're a member there as you have it in your sig.

How many members here do you think are running olds motors??

Not hating on ya just trying to figure out why you would ask that question here.

 

[88hurstolds]

I am asking because it's for a turbo application, I would think there are some on this site that are not one track minded on just a 231 V6 and would have good general knowledge on putting together other turbo applications since the main focus of this site is turbos.

 

[robzombie]

The main focus is on TURBO BUICKS hence the name Turbo BUICK.com

Now I will admit that there is a small trend that are going LS V8 [chevy] not olds.

That's why I asked why you would post that question here.

 

[ZNix]

I am no expert, but something in the 62mm range should be adequate... be it the precision 6266, the bws362, or a pair of on3 62s. Its all depending on budget. Precision is the most expensive, on3 the least.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[88hurstolds]

The main focus is on TURBO BUICKS hence the name Turbo BUICK.com
Now I will admit that there is a small trend that are going LS V8 [chevy] not olds.
That's why I asked why you would post that question here.

Let's stick to the topic instead of being passive aggressive... those who are knowledgeable on the subject and are willing to help will come forward, I am not interested in those who are not.

Buick Regals came with Oldsmobile 307's.
The 231 is just an Olds 307 missing 2 cylinders when comparing bore and stroke.
Given the similarities between Buick 231's and Oldsmobile 307's, i.e. stroke and bore and given that the any modification to any engine with a custom piston size and stroke I figured that there would be good information to carry over to my project here on this site.
There are also guys on here ripping out their V6 and adding in a Buick V8's and going turbo as well, albeit not on an Olds 307 however given Buick (and Pontiac) engines are not too much different than Olds, especially the 455's I also assumed that some knowledge could be learned from the members on this site..
Thank you

I am no expert, but something in the 62mm range should be adequate... be it the precision 6266, the bws362, or a pair of on3 62s. Its all depending on budget. Precision is the most expensive, on3 the least.

Thanks for your input.

I was assuming a smaller Turbo would be adequate, just wasn't sure what size or if there was a way to calculate your needs based on HP and displacement.

How much boost will a pair of 62mm's typically give you on a V6 versus a V8?
I am more-so trying to understand the differences between the two as well.

 

[earlbrown]

Let's stick to the topic instead of being passive aggressive... those who are knowledgeable on the subject and are willing to help will come forward, I am not interested in those who are not.

Wow. Way to dictate policy. Entitlement mentality much?

Buick Regals came with Oldsmobile 307's.
The 231 is just an Olds 307 missing 2 cylinders when comparing bore and stroke.

Actually it's a Buick tree-fiddy with two cylinders missing. Granted they are both decended from the workings of Nicolaus Otto's 1886 invention, so I guess that's something.

Given the similarities between Buick 231's and Oldsmobile 307's, i.e. stroke and bore and given that the any modification to any engine with a custom piston size and stroke I figured that there would be good information to carry over to my project here on this site.

Nope. Not really.

There are also guys on here ripping out their V6 and adding in a Buick V8's and going turbo as well, albeit not on an Olds 307 however given Buick (and Pontiac) engines are not too much different than Olds, especially the 455's I also assumed that some knowledge could be learned from the members on this site..
Thank you

There is knowledge here.... but it don't directly move over to what your taking about doing.

That being said, since you're so insistant, I would run (6) mototron 60/65# injectors off the stock ECM and a stage III turbo. (better?)


I would elaborate more but I need to run over to an NSX forum and berate them to tell me what size jet will be perfect in my carbed supercharged 454 jetboat engine.

 

[robzombie]

The 231 is just an Olds 307 missing 2 cylinders when comparing bore and stroke.

Not!!!!!! That there quote shows your ignorance and misunderstanding of what the hell you are trying to do.

I am asking because it's for a turbo application, I would think there are some on this site that are not one track minded on just a 231 V6 and would have good general knowledge on putting together other turbo applications since the main focus of this site is turbos.

Why not go to a ricer sight they know how to turbo JAP CRAP.

Better yet go to an OLDS site where your engine is better understood than on this board.

The buick motor is just that a buick motor.

I suppose you could go to a chevy board as chevy made a 307 also, the olds motor is the same as a chevy except chevy wanted the distributor in the rear not the front.

I wasn't hating on you in past posts and stated so, but now I am.

You'd think that with 9 olds 442's he would have the brains on where to ask that question.

It just proves that money can't buy everything, OH wait I have a brain for sale that I got from an MIT professor I could let go for cheap. You interested??

 

[bison]

Why only 800hp? You wouldn't need much at all for that. Two turbos with 58mm inducer with 57mm exducer ex wheel. Together they will support over 100lbs/min which is enough to support over 1000hp. Throttle body requirements will be under 90mm even at 6000 rpm.

 

[88hurstolds]

Earlbrown and robzombie you need to check your facts a little instead of coming off as fools...
The 231 is VERY similar in swept cylinder volume when compared to an Olds 307 versus a Buick 350

Olds 307: 3.80 bore 3.385 stroke.
Buick LC2 231: 3.80 bore 3.4 stroke.
Buick 350: 3.80 bore 3.85 stroke.

Now you see that the stroke is 0.015" shorter on an Olds which is about the thickness of a business card so my argument on a 231 being compared to an Olds 307 minus 2 cylinders is accurate.

And given that air volume, CR and HP goals have much to do with turbo selection I am hoping for some input on the subject given the fact that very little run turbos in the Oldsmobile world.
I have acquired information from some in that arena already but figured I would gain some input from those that deal with Turbos combined with FI given the fact that Olds doesn't have many options for FI and many are running blow through setups.
But it seems that I've touched a very sore subject with some... and I am not going to go to some JAP site to get information on a GM vehicle... nor am I going to go to a Chevy site where the inter workings are much different.

I suppose you could go to a chevy board as chevy made a 307 also, the olds motor is the same as a chevy except chevy wanted the distributor in the rear not the front.

Wow, now that's rich, show's your ignorance right there... both Chevy and Oldsmobile have the distributor in the back, but what does the location of the distributor have to do with anything?
And NO, Chevy's almost have nothing in common with Oldsmobiles:
Chevy 350: 4.0 Bore 3.48 stroke
Olds 350: 4.057 Bore 3.385 stroke
Also, the intake and exhaust port setup is completely different on a Chevy, Olds/Buick/Pontiac are similar
Olds/Buick/Pontiac timing order (CCW), Chevy (CW)
I can go on...

I wasn't hating on you in past posts and stated so, but now I am.
You'd think that with 9 olds 442's he would have the brains on where to ask that question.
It just proves that money can't buy everything, OH wait I have a brain for sale that I got from an MIT professor I could let go for cheap. You interested??

You were hating on me from the get go instead of providing constructive input, just because you try and "make up for it" by saying in your post that you are not doesn't mean anything.
It's called being passive aggressive, look it up with your MIT brain instead of being a troll.

I already have the information I need on the subject being from an Oldsmobile standpoint:
http://realoldspower.prophpbb.com/topic260.html
I am asking here to get more detail on the subject since not many people run turbos let alone with FI on Oldsmobiles and want a second opinion from those that have more experience.

Let's stay on topic.

Why only 800hp? You wouldn't need much at all for that. Two turbos with 58mm inducer with 57mm exducer ex wheel. Together they will support over 100lbs/min which is enough to support over 1000hp. Throttle body requirements will be under 90mm even at 6000 rpm.

Thanks Bison.
I am trying to keep the car streetable and not have to put in a cage.

 

[bison]

Earlbrown and robzombie you need to check your facts a little instead of coming off as fools...
The 231 is VERY similar in swept cylinder volume when compared to an Olds 307 versus a Buick 350

Olds 307: 3.80 bore 3.385 stroke.
Buick LC2 231: 3.80 bore 3.4 stroke.
Buick 350: 3.80 bore 3.85 stroke.

Now you see that the stroke is 0.015" shorter on an Olds which is about the thickness of a business card so my argument on a 231 being compared to an Olds 307 minus 2 cylinders is accurate.

And given that air volume, CR and HP goals have much to do with turbo selection I am hoping for some input on the subject given the fact that very little run turbos in the Oldsmobile world.
I have acquired information from some in that arena already but figured I would gain some input from those that deal with Turbos combined with FI given the fact that Olds doesn't have many options for FI and many are running blow through setups.
But it seems that I've touched a very sore subject with some... and I am not going to go to some JAP site to get information on a GM vehicle... nor am I going to go to a Chevy site where the inter workings are much different.



Wow, now that's rich, show's your ignorance right there... both Chevy and Oldsmobile have the distributor in the back, but what does the location of the distributor have to do with anything?
And NO, Chevy's almost have nothing in common with Oldsmobiles:
Chevy 350: 4.0 Bore 3.48 stroke
Olds 350: 4.057 Bore 3.385 stroke
Also, the intake and exhaust port setup is completely different on a Chevy, Olds/Buick/Pontiac are similar
Olds/Buick/Pontiac timing order (CCW), Chevy (CW)
I can go on...



You were hating on me from the get go instead of providing constructive input, just because you try and "make up for it" by saying in your post that you are not doesn't mean anything.
It's called being passive aggressive, look it up with your MIT brain instead of being a troll.

I already have the information I need on the subject being from an Oldsmobile standpoint:
http://realoldspower.prophpbb.com/topic260.html
I am asking here to get more detail on the subject since not many people run turbos let alone with FI on Oldsmobiles and want a second opinion from those that have more experience.

Let's stay on topic.



Thanks Bison.
I am trying to keep the car streetable and not have to put in a cage.

 

[bison]

The quote feature on the app is unreliable at times but your will need a cage if you plan on using 800hp at any NHRA drag strip. 800hp is solid mid 9's in a 3500lb car. You should build around streetability and bend the cam rules a little since you have plenty of displacement to cover up ills. Your not looking to squeeze out every drop of power and want to maintain high vacuum at cruising speeds and keep cylinder pressure under control. I'd stay with turbos like I rec'd and a cam with less than 230 duration @ .050" and time the cam to minimize reversion. If you are interested in turbos and a camshaft that will work better than what guys typically run let me know. Let me know the cam journal size we are dealing with in your block. We had a small block Chevy <400ci easily make 800whp with about 20psi using an old pair of e cover 60-1 p trim with crappy on center ex housings. At 17psi it made over 700whp.

 

[20psiofevil]

If it were me I'd go with a f1a or ysi.

 

[87-WE2]

Why are you asking this question here??
.[/COLOR]

C'mon now!!! The answer to this question is painfully obvious.

Brian hangs out here and has forgotten more about turbos than most will ever know! Well, at least me anyway.

 

[robzombie]

C'mon now!!! The answer to this question is painfully obvious.

Brian hangs out here and has forgotten more about turbos than most will ever know! Well, at least me anyway.

Then why not PM him if he has all the answers, why post in the first place?

 

[88hurstolds]

Then why not PM him if he has all the answers, why post in the first place?

Because I don't know who Brian is and this is a discussion forum last I checked.
I don't need your permission to post here... contribute to the forum in a positive and constructive manner rather than being a troll and hijacking my thread for attention.

If it were me I'd go with a f1a or ysi.

I thought about going that route at one point, going to stick with turbos.

The quote feature on the app is unreliable at times but your will need a cage if you plan on using 800hp at any NHRA drag strip. 800hp is solid mid 9's in a 3500lb car. You should build around streetability and bend the cam rules a little since you have plenty of displacement to cover up ills. Your not looking to squeeze out every drop of power and want to maintain high vacuum at cruising speeds and keep cylinder pressure under control. I'd stay with turbos like I rec'd and a cam with less than 230 duration @ .050" and time the cam to minimize reversion. If you are interested in turbos and a camshaft that will work better than what guys typically run let me know. Let me know the cam journal size we are dealing with in your block. We had a small block Chevy <400ci easily make 800whp with about 20psi using an old pair of e cover 60-1 p trim with crappy on center ex housings. At 17psi it made over 700whp.

Excellent advice Bison, this is going to be a street car and that's exactly what I was looking for input wise.

Thanks turbobuick.com

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Like Bison has said. A couple 58 or 60mm comp wheels will easily cover that power level and then some. For injectors I'd run some 72-83# injectors.

For any olds tech, realoldspower has a couple guys who know olds motors and turbo's very well. Russell Hunt is over there who has the fastest olds powered car in the country that I'm aware of.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Chuck Leeper]

How about....Any/all that don't have a contribution to the op's request, just "keep it zipped".

 

[88hurstolds]

Like Bison has said. A couple 58 or 60mm comp wheels will easily cover that power level and then some. For injectors I'd run some 72-83# injectors.

For any olds tech, realoldspower has a couple guys who know olds motors and turbo's very well. Russell Hunt is over there who has the fastest olds powered car in the country that I'm aware of.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Yes, I am a frequent member of that forum, I've spoke to Russell on the phone about my project in the past and have seen videos of his dragster, impressive!
All of the turbo builds that I've seen for Olds on that site are blow through or E85 which are great but I am looking for Fuel Injection which I believe this site hosts some experts on the topic and I've been given some great advice.

Some 60mm turbos, 80lb injectors and using a 90mm throttle body thereabouts will get me to where I want to be.
Thanks again guys!

 

[earlbrown]

Earlbrown and robzombie you need to check your facts a little instead of coming off as fools...
The 231 is VERY similar in swept cylinder volume when compared to an Olds 307 versus a Buick 350

Olds 307: 3.80 bore 3.385 stroke.
Buick LC2 231: 3.80 bore 3.4 stroke.
Buick 350: 3.80 bore 3.85 stroke.

Now you see that the stroke is 0.015" shorter on an Olds which is about the thickness of a business card so my argument on a 231 being compared to an Olds 307 minus 2 cylinders is accurate.

I learned something today. I had no idea that the only nuance to a particular engine was bore and stroke. Now I can ignore port flow, valvetrains, oiling, intake flow, distribution, firing orders, materials, weight, strength and all kinda of other stuff I've been worrying about. I bet those V8 Chevy guys feel stupid with the 1000's of different head choices when all that matters is bore and stroke.


What I don't understand is I no longer have a 3.800" bore....I changed mine to 3.995". I wonder what engine I'm related to know? It still acts like a fast Grand National, but now I'm wondering if I'm qualified to make that assessment. I'm surprised my car is a fast as it is. I guess it's true what that say... Ignorance really is bliss. If I was as smart as you, I'd probably have a non running turbo car (like you).

Now I'm wonder how my engine (with the wrong bore) is still in one piece since I did all the machining myself. It also appears that my blatant foolishness and ignorance has cause me to be unable to read my precision measuring tools. My business cars aren't even 75% of what they should be.


You got the boat anchored all turbo'd up yet?? Hell it's the same as TR and ours were born that way... How hard can it be?