Popped an MLS gasket and cracked a piston on 100 octane and meth...

[Razor]

Direct port alky would be something. Especially for the twin nozzle guys.

6 nozzles, 6 hoses, distribution block, solenoid, spacer, custom machining, and added complexity. ~500-600 conservative estimate plus labor.
Piece of cardboard to limit airflow through IC. Free.

Thoughts?

 

[Razor]

We might be better off to bypass the intercooler all together in cold weather. My car runs the best with IAT's between 60* and 70*F.

Umm.. Rick.. doesn't work that way.

Every PSI boost is 11DF due to compressing air. So 20 PSI =220 DF above ambient. So if its 30 outside + 20 PSI= 250 degree's. Not 60-70 DF.

This is why Hot Airs cant run big boost.. even in the winter months.

Block it off to control IAT's. Every car will be different as to how much opening is technically needed.

 

[Grumpy]

Would like to see a post throttle body nozzle system that injects alky into the intake runners. Like done with nitrous. That would be the ultimate.


More thoughts?

well way back in the day we ran nitrous.. For YEARS .. That was a blast.. NOS came out with a "6 Pack" system.. 6 nozzles on the plenum to each cyl.. Def had the "cool guy look". Kenny D was doin a lot of testin back then with it. Talking to him AFTER we blew the gasket an an he said the simple 1 nozzle "like a alky kit" worked better. I wanted to prove him wrong because we had already bought the set up. We blew a headgasket on the first run..
On another note we always ran a 160 therm. Just more info on what guys run.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Umm.. Rick.. doesn't work that way.

Every PSI boost is 11DF due to compressing air. So 20 PSI =220 DF above ambient. So if its 30 outside + 20 PSI= 250 degree's. Not 60-70 DF.

This is why Hot Airs cant run big boost.. even in the winter months.

Block it off to control IAT's. Every car will be different as to how much opening is technically needed.

O I know. I was speaking of a controlled IAT of 60* to 70*f. Not ambient. Yes every car will be different.

I think we would have to worry less about the IAT's if we inject post throttle body.

 

[TurboBuRick]

well way back in the day we ran nitrous.. For YEARS .. That was a blast.. NOS came out with a "6 Pack" system.. 6 nozzles on the plenum to each cyl.. Def had the "cool guy look". Kenny D was doin a lot of testin back then with it. Talking to him AFTER we blew the gasket an an he said the simple 1 nozzle "like a alky kit" worked better. I wanted to prove him wrong because we had already bought the set up. We blew a headgasket on the first run..
On another note we always ran a 160 therm. Just more info on what guys run.

With nitrous you need equal amount of fuel. That could have played a roll.

What cylinder blew?

 

[Razor]

O I know. I was speaking of a controlled IAT of 60* to 70*f. Not ambient. Yes every car will be different.

I think we would have to worry less about the IAT's if we inject post throttle body.

I know.. thats the "Holy Grail" of temperatures.. but will not happen without an IC(meaning bypassed).

Since the "theory" is extreme cold temps coupled with lots of meth volume.. lead to fragging the front of the motor due to air going through pipe being way to cold.. then the simple solution is to regulate the efficiency of the IC to not allow it to do its job properly of cooling the air. The fact its installed will allow cooling of air.. even if blocked off. As it still functions as a radiator. So like any radiator works without a fan on it.. limiting airflow through it would impact how it reduces temps.

I'm liking my cardboard blockoff theory to decrease air through it making temps come up.. if temps come up.. then no excuses right? Just need to watch IAT's and adjust its blockage of core.

Since all IC's are different. This will take some trial and error testing. I would shoot for 100-120 degree's IAT's personally. But thats just me.

 

[Razor]

well way back in the day we ran nitrous.. For YEARS .. That was a blast.. NOS came out with a "6 Pack" system.. 6 nozzles on the plenum to each cyl.. Def had the "cool guy look". Kenny D was doin a lot of testin back then with it. Talking to him AFTER we blew the gasket an an he said the simple 1 nozzle "like a alky kit" worked better. I wanted to prove him wrong because we had already bought the set up. We blew a headgasket on the first run..
On another note we always ran a 160 therm. Just more info on what guys run.

My cars have always ran 160 therms. And My fastest times racing have been leaving the line at 150 and crossing the traps at 165. If I ran the car at 180-190.. it would be down .1-.2.

Just me tho

 

[TurboBuRick]

I know.. thats the "Holy Grail" of temperatures.. but will not happen without an IC(meaning bypassed).

Since the "theory" is extreme cold temps coupled with lots of meth volume.. lead to fragging the front of the motor due to air going through pipe being way to cold.. then the simple solution is to regulate the efficiency of the IC to not allow it to do its job properly of cooling the air. The fact its installed will allow cooling of air.. even if blocked off. As it still functions as a radiator. So like any radiator works without a fan on it.. limiting airflow through it would impact how it reduces temps.

I'm liking my cardboard blockoff theory to decrease air through it making temps come up.. if temps come up.. then no excuses right? Just need to watch IAT's and adjust its blockage of core.

Since all IC's are different. This will take some trial and error testing. I would shoot for 100-120 degree's IAT's personally. But thats just me.

Blocking the cooler would work. It's just hard to tell a customer to adjust your IAT's with a piece of cardboard. The guy's car I'm working on now does not even get on the board or do any kind of research. He pays no attention to data. He can't even tell me where the afr's were when it blew. And he has a pillar mount gauge. For all I know he cranked up the alky knob thinking it was going to help things. I really don't know because according to him, he drives like a little old lady and never touches a thing. I know better......

Too better understand, where specifically are you measuring IAT's. I'm talking post intecooler pre alky nozzle.

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[Grumpy]

With nitrous you need equal amount of fuel. That could have played a roll.

What cylinder blew?

middle cyl.. forget what side.. Had plenty of fuel for the juice

 

[Grumpy]

For all I know he cranked up the alky knob thinking it was going to help things. I really don't know because according to him, he drives like a little old lady and never touches a thing. I know better......[/quote

you never will know... Hey I was just driving down the street and it made a funny noise

 

[Razor]

Blocking the cooler would work. It's just hard to tell a customer to adjust your IAT's with a piece of cardboard. The guy's car I'm working on now does not even get on the board or do any kind of research. He pays no attention to data. He can't even tell me where the afr's were when it blew. And he has a pillar mount gauge. For all I know he cranked up the alky knob thinking it was going to help things. I really don't know because according to him, he drives like a little old lady and never touches a thing. I know better......

Too better understand, where specifically are you measuring IAT's. I'm talking post intecooler pre alky nozzle.

Thanks for everyone's input.

But if the customer doesn't exercise some common sense, he really doesn't need to be on a cranked up setup. Def not twin nozzle.

These cars are not for everyone. Once the modding starts.. ever mod has a consequence.

What is to say the lines where dry from not using the system... gas tank low... engine cold.. and he wails on the throttle. Its really not hard to pop one of these motors.. alcohol or not..

 

[TurboBuRick]

But if the customer doesn't exercise some common sense, he really doesn't need to be on a cranked up setup. Def not twin nozzle.

These cars are not for everyone. Once the modding starts.. ever mod has a consequence.

What is to say the lines where dry from not using the system... gas tank low... engine cold.. and he wails on the throttle. Its really not hard to pop one of these motors.. alcohol or not..

You speak with forked tongue!

If you can't build and tune it you really have no business with these cars. It's just how it is.

A pop would have been a walk in the park. This dude melted #1 so bad it went into the bore. Had to take it .040 over and it still has a couple little pit marks.

There was a serious failure and can't get any good information from the owner. He swears this happened on a light foot.

Believe I'm going to comb over this car. I hope I find some other problem. I would feel allot better...

 

[TurboBuRick]

you never will know... Hey I was just driving down the street and it made a funny noise

Dan, do you know this guy???

 

[Grumpy]

Dan, do you know this guy???

yup !!! Delt with "them" for years "I was NOT beating on it !!! REALLY

 

[Razor]

You speak with forked tongue!

If you can't build and tune it you really have no business with these cars. It's just how it is.

So your saying that its possible to "tune" one of these cars so its impossible to kill it? Aside from pulling the turbo off the car?

There is a reason racing engines dont come with a warranty

My own engine has been in my car now since 2007... has hundreds(550-600) of really hard runs on it. Does it mean it cant "POP".. no.. but I hedge my odds using some common sense. I also throw money at engine management, data logging software, and the slightest perception something doesnt feel right... my foot is off the throttle.

Case in point.. how many times I have gone to a race track and watch a car going down the track.. popp..popp.popp... and the driver keeps his foot in thinking its going to fix itself. Or someone with a fresh combo hits the track and first pass the car is set on kill.. and whalla.. there you have it.

If my theory holds true.. I bet when it gets cold.. the tires get hard.. someone cranks the boost.. the car blows the tires.. and the driver keeps his foot into the throttle thinking their John Force hitting the rev limiter...Becuase the tires lose grip, the rpm's shoot up along with the boost.. next thing ya know.. poooof.. combination of cold temps, loss of load on the motor, overboost, etc etc etc.

VS.. the guy on a track with sticky tires, engine up to temp, checks to see gas tank is full, checks to see alcohol is working, adjusts himself for track conditions as to how much boost he can leave at.. brings the engine up on rpms before he leaves.. car plants tires and goes..then glances over at the wideband and see's it where its suppossed to be.

Same car both scenario's.. the second car has an engine that lasts.. let alone the big one.. distraction.. the second car the driver can pay attention to the way the car feels.. vs the first one.. driver is overwhelmed with sensory peripherals and eyes going all over the road trying to figure stuff out. And just simply driving down the road.

Rick.. if the owner of the car cant respond to questions like "How much boost are you seeing?" "How much knock?" etc.. there's your sign.

 

[kidglok]

cant we just weld the heads to the block?

 

[Razor]

cant we just weld the heads to the block?

Just use JB Weld on the head gaskets to glue them down

 

[Alky V6]

well way back in the day we ran nitrous.. For YEARS .. That was a blast.. NOS came out with a "6 Pack" system.. 6 nozzles on the plenum to each cyl.. Def had the "cool guy look". Kenny D was doin a lot of testin back then with it. Talking to him AFTER we blew the gasket an an he said the simple 1 nozzle "like a alky kit" worked better. I wanted to prove him wrong because we had already bought the set up. We blew a headgasket on the first run..
On another note we always ran a 160 therm. Just more info on what guys run.

That hasn't been my experience. I've been running port injected nitrous (six nozzles) for years now, and plan to continue doing so. If the system is set up right, it can be a very trouble free system.
I try to be over 150 when I leave the line. 180 works best for me.