Preoiling , rarely started engine

[tttype]

I would still prefer a simple motor run system. Car sits for 10 years, jump in, press button & lube it up.
No need for timers etc. I know the systems are out there but obviously not being used in the TB world.

I need to move the car soon so am going to pull cam sensor & drill it. If engine was out I would plumb a pickup into pan & build simple motor luber.

The accusumps a bit pricey. Is mechanical ( spring loaded system) spring could weaken or break over the years. Oil could leak past piston seals over years also.

Autoenginelube is reasonably priced. No spring or piston seals to fail. May order one to try.

GNONYX whats between the schrader valve & gauge ?
Where is the timer ? Do you remember what timer cost ?
Do you think the 25 psi hot pressure would do much ?

Thanks for info

 

[GNONYX]

whats between the schrader valve & gauge ?
At one time before replacing the liquid filled oil pressure gauge on top of the accumulator tank, I had a different type of liquid filled oil pressure gauge and for some reason the oil pressure gauge would peg beyond the needle max point of 160* rating. It may be it was a cheap or defective gauge, so after replacing the gauge with a 100* rating liquid filled oil pressure gauge that is used for motorcycle.
I installed a flow control valve to ease the flow into the oil pressure gauge, and full flow back into the tank.
I got the flow valve on EBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/290981520882?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649), and if you look and see on the picture it has marking, "FULL on one side and ADJ on the other side of the flow valve. The adjustable side is fitted to the liquid filled oil pressure gauge, and the full marking is fitted on the accumulator tank side. I really don't need the flow control valve since I replaced the oil pressure gauge, but it doesn't hurt to leave it in place.
Where is the timer ?
If you look at the picture I provided, on the left side, there are some red wires and a blue color square box, that is the timer and it's location. Behind the timer is the in-line fuse holder with the red indicator light to indicate if the fuse is blown.
Do you remember what timer cost ?
I don't remember what the cost of the timer was, that was many years ago.
Do you think the 25 psi hot pressure would do much ?
I personally don't like to leave only 25* of oil pressure in the accumulator tank, especially if the oil is cold and heavy. Presently, I'm using Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil 20W-50, and when I turn the key on and not the engine I sometimes don't see the oil pressure on the digital oil pressure gauge, especially when the garage is cold, that is why I have an oil pressure gauge on top of the accumulator tank.
I installed the timer so you can adjusted the timer to a longer delay time to capture the highest oil pressure flow going into the accumulator tank before timer times out.
Also if you look at the picture again, above the oil filter is where I have the oil pressure gauge sender unit is installed, and where I placed the brass "T" fitting where the accumulator tank hose is connected to top of the "T" brass unit. What I did I switched the accumulator hose and the oil pressure switch sender unit, so when the accumulator tank marine valve is open the oil flow goes straight through the engine with no bends.

 

[Hot Air]

Two things:
First of all, Jack Cotton suggested I install a switch that cuts ignition (FAST box) years ago. I crank the engine over until I see oil pressure beginning to build and then throw the switch that powers the ignition. No problem. Use it when I change the oil as well.

Second, I watched a program on Velocity channel recently. It was about a guy in Tennessee who purchases 100 year old motorcycles. Most have not been run in 60 to 100 years. He simply puts a electric hotplate (remember those?) under the engine and heats up the metal and oil. He then drains the warm oil out and puts fresh oil back in. He puts fresh gasoline in the tank and starts the engine! He does not remove spark plugs, ignition wires, or valve springs. I got the impression he was afraid he would break a bolt or something and simply could not find replacement parts if he tried so he leaves the engine pretty much as he found it. Apparently he is very successful in getting these 100 year old motorcycles to run!

Conrad

 

[earlbrown]

If the car sit for 10 years, you don't need a preluber, you need two oil changes.

Spending money on a complex oiler to keep from pulling the cam sensor in the year 2023 (and 2033) seems to be a little overkillish.

 

[GNONYX]

You do realize whether you put a cut off ignition switch, or disconnect the orange wire behind the battery, and crank the engine you are still DRY cranking since there is no OIL on the bearings. This goes for any engine including motorcycles that has been sitting for many non-starting years. I can only imagine how the owner was please he was starting the 100 year old motorcycle for the first few dry cranking as metal to metal rubbing and eventually the engine started and oil going throughout the oil passageway. I really don't want bad luck on anyone, but I personally feel his motorcycle motor life cycle has shorted some.
Here is another concept of thinking; Once you do a timing chain replacement, whether you pack Valvoline in the oil pump cavity, or pour motor oil on the motor lower cooler hose from the radiator, you have to remove the cam sensor and use a priming tool to prime the oil pump until you visually see oil pressure on the oil pressure gauge. Once you have the oil pressure then you can connect all and start the engine, and even then I still look at the oil pressure gauge to make sure I still have the oil pressure present.
I do understand some of the oil filter has an anti-drain system, but is that going to guarantee that after month or longer storage the oil is going to be in the oil passageway and on the bearings? Maybe or Maybe Not
This is why I installed a pre-lube system as this will guarantee oil in the oil passageway and on the bearings, and no dry start.

 

[earlbrown]

I've pulled engines out of a field that's been sitting out in the rain for many many years and every bearing journal were covered in oil (I will forever smell the stench as the main bolts come out). That stuff is sticky as hell and can't evaporate. If it could, my driveway would shine like a new nickel. Instead there's evidence of every time I've spilled oil over the years.

For those that have to prelube or the engine will weld up instantly, you have to figure out a way to rotate the crank 180* to get the other half of the rod bearings.

 

[turbo nasty]

Have a oil film vs a pressurized hydrodynamic wedge is too different things. Bottom line engine that really sits as bunch should be prelubed for the best protection before start up. Will a engine have more wear with a prelube...yes, no question.
Now with that said if its sludged up then its neglected and should be repaired.

 

[GNONYX]

You know earlbrown , I have mention this many times before, and that is "to each its owns"
Many dress our TR to suit our stye in performance, or appearance, and mostly both.
I'm not knocking on anyone decision of what they want to do to their TR, I personally like the pre-lube oil system that I selected.
My father who was a great mechanic taught me a lot of engine and transmission break down, but unfortunately I gave up of learning on the rebuilding of a Cadillac transmission; man now I wish I should have learn that part.
I have heard many engines during our times of starting up with valves tapping among other things before oil reaches to those components, and this is why I selected to have a pre-lube oil system.
You as a engine builder know about our TR engine, where as others wants the comfort or reinsurance of installing an inexpensive pre-lube oil system to prevent a dry start.
Although these cars are in a class by itself, and like many we all are still learning of all components of these cars and engine.
As far as your comment on "For those that have to prelube or the engine will weld up instantly, you have to figure out a way to rotate the crank 180* to get the other half of the rod bearings". Well look at bright side, the engine only have to rotate 180* to lube the rest of the bearings.

 

[earlbrown]

I would be more worried about my Rube Goldberg motorized preoiling system failing in 10 years moreso than my bearings locking down.

Don't get me wrong, I love overcomplicating stuff, but if it's important I rarely violate the KISS rule (just to realize my efforts and cash outlay were wasted).

 

[tttype]

You are completely right Earl.
Anyone that modifys a functioning factory system ( especially an oiling system) must be a fool.

I would be more worried about my Rube Goldberg motorized preoiling system failing in 10 years moreso than my bearings locking down.

Don't get me wrong, I love overcomplicating stuff, but if it's important I rarely violate the KISS rule (just to realize my efforts and cash outlay were wasted).

 

[earlbrown]

Modifying when it makes something less complicated is normally a good thing. There's a guy that does that with oil pumps. He gets rid of a 90 and a 180 and replaces them with a 45

When my car was stolen and sat for 6 years with the tank open to atmosphere, the fuel pump developed rust flakes in it. Fortunately I caught it before it sent a rouge flake into my fuel system.

Imagine if the Rube Goldberg primer setup developing some sort of debris or internal corrosion over the decade..... It'd be a shame to shoot crud into a perfectly fine engine.

 

[longball]

I would think an engine would have less wear with a prelube?

 

[longball]

[quote="turbo nasty,Will a engine have more wear with a prelube...yes, no question. [/quote]



I would think an engine would have less with a prelube?

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

Not getting the reason why a person would not just pull the cam sensor and prime the pump. Is it not knowing how to re-stab the sensor or would it be laziness. Hell my car sat more than three months and i pulled the sensor and primed it but i am complicated like that. It was also free.

 

[GNONYX]

I have mention this many times before, and I guess no one is listening when I said "TO EACH ITS OWN"

Everyone has different favor of how we all want to dress our TR, while others like their engine with chrome valve cover and others like it black, satin finish, or even stock finish.

Others make comments that they don’t understand on why put a pre-lube oil system as one can remove the cam sensor and prime the oil and it’s free. Funny that the same person has a Turbo oil saver kit, different terminology, but it’s still called a pre-lube oil system.

By the way, after running your turbo, you can idle you engine of about 5 minutes and then shut down, and that is also free.

I do listen to all opinions and comments, but it’s the one who gives a negative comments on why spend money on something meaningless.

Google pre-lube oil system and you will read there are many positive and few negative reviews on using a pre-lube oil system.

The best part of during anything to your ride is, it’s your money and if you feel positive of doing something good then do it.

 

[John Davidson]

Hey folks,
Reading through this thread, I still cannot determine if the 3.8T motor benefits from pre-oiling prior to firing after an extended period of not running. Have an 87 GN, 27k, anti-freeze is still green, hasn't fired in who knows how long. Will be changing oil/filter, trans fluid/filter, fuel/filter (possibly gas tank). Pre-lube and fire or not??

 

[GNONYX]

Welcome to a great forum of many members with many good comments to help you out with all your needs if any.
As far as you situation, whether you want a pre-lube oil system or not, or you can remove the can sensor with a primer tool and prime the oil pump until you see oil pressure on your oil pressure gauge. Just make sure you mark the can sensor location so all can be put back exactly as you first remove it.
Is your GN all stock?
Although your anti-freeze is green I would change it, flush out the whole system and then put fresh anti-freeze
You made not need anti-freeze as this will depends on where you live.

 

[David Husek]

Am firing up the Ttype for first time in a few years & need to build oil pressure before turning engine over.
Don't really want to pull the cam sensor as may have to start the engine every few months & repeatedly removing cam sensor will be a pita.

Anyone use a preoiler to fire up their occasionally run Buick ?

Any suggestions ? recommendations to style or brand ?

I would just fire it up. Dont know why you would pull the cam sensor to start the engine every few months. My car sat for 5 years and it started right up with oil pressure. Start it with the oil in the pan, do not change it till after it runs or you may run into problems.

I would be more concerned with keeping the rpms above 2000 rpm for some time to keep the cam from wiping out. So many start there engines and warm them up at idle and wonder why flat tappet cams fail. The camshaft relies on splash for lube and the cam will be dry on start up which no pre lube will help...

 

[turbo nasty]

[quote="turbo nasty,Will a engine have more wear with a prelube...yes, no question.

I would think an engine would have less wit with a prelube?[/quote]

Dammit...stupid phone text. I meant without prelube. Good catch

 

[John Davidson]

@GNONYX-
Thanks for the council. I will definitely be doing a fluid change front to back, as well as some choice items I am certain will need replacing. I may pull the valve covers to replace those gaskets immediately, and give me an opportunity to prelube the heads a bit. A pre-luber itself is not in the item list. And the GN is all stock, but it is truly a mess from sitting outside untouched, unprotected, not started, etc. I am looking at a likely near frame-off restoration/renovation of this beauty. I will be bringing her back to stock baseline to start. Mechanically first, interior clean up, then the body work will get done.