PRO-PAIN users step inside please!!!!

[Bill_Ritter]

I cant seem to get my car to break into the 12's with my propain kit. My best is a 13.002 (soooo close, but no cigar )

Im running 24* timing, 22 lbs of boost, 150 psi regulated, 200psi bottle pressure and the 99 jet at 100% duty cycle. my egt's are right around 1600. 44psi fuel pressure static, stock intercooler

My Question To You Guys is what is your:

-Best 1/4 mi ET
-EGT reading
-what timing on your chip
-Fuel pressure
-regulated pressure
-bottle pressure
-jet size
-duty cycle
-combo (turbo, intercooler, inj)

do you think 1600* is too high of a egt for a car running propain?
Any help is GREATLY appreciated! TIA

 

[tracer]

What's your mph and short time? These measures of horsepower and traction should help determine what your max potential with current tuning.

 

[motorhead]

-Best 1/4 mi ET

13.2 @ 102.xmph, 2.0x 60'

-EGT reading

1650+*F

-what timing on your chip

Variable... ask JayC what it should be at 22psi?!

-Fuel pressure

45psi

-regulated pressure

150psi

-bottle pressure

100-150psi depending how cool it is outside.

-jet size

99 (largest in the kit)

-duty cycle

100%

-combo (turbo, intercooler, inj)

Ported Stock Turbo, FMIC, Blue Tops, MPE 3" DP (open), K&N Cone on Cold Air Kit, 10" 3000 stall Converter, 3.73s; on 17" rims and tires...

I know on a 28" tall slick this puppy would run 12s. With 3.42s it would be even quicker... but, this isn't my goal.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

What's your mph and short time? These measures of horsepower and traction should help determine what your max potential with current tuning.

My 60' times are in the 1.9's on 28x12.5x15 MT ET streets leaving at 5psi boost (thats all i can make at the line).
Trap speed is usually around 103-104.

 

[Nocooler]

I'm not a Propain user but......

If you are getting 0* of knock retard on 20psi with a Ta49 - you should be trapping alot higher than 104. I would say the Pro-pain is doing its job - and you have problems elsewhere.

Start with the basics - you'll find your problem.

 

[1badTTA]

I haven't been to the track yet with the propain, but I am running the same setup that I was running the last time I went to the track and it netted my 111mph in the 1/4. I am only running 18psi with the propain and getting no knock (some false knock on shifts) and haven't upped the boost any more yet but there is more left in it.

I am sure I will be able to get at least the same mph once it is all fine tuned and I get my O2's down into the .770-.780 range (currently around .830) and I am running the smallest jet included in the kit. Looks to be alot left in my tuning with the propain

PS 160psi bottle pressure, 125psi regulated, 100% duty cycle above 13psi of boost, 24deg timing.

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by stevemon
Still interested in seeing some good ETs w/Propaine systems...
Anyone?

Send me a big turbo and some bigger injectors and some more money for the odds and ends and I'll click of an 11 for you.

Until then... give it a rest, please.

 

[1badTTA]

Originally posted by Mr. T
Send me a big turbo and some bigger injectors and some more money for the odds and ends and I'll click of an 11 for you.

Until then... give it a rest, please.

Put me on that list

Don't forget that I need a nice 3" downpipe too.

 

[Nocooler]

Originally posted by Mr. T
Send me a big turbo and some bigger injectors and some more money for the odds and ends and I'll click of an 11 for you.

Until then... give it a rest, please.

Thats the point - you don't need a big turbo/injectors to run low 12's/high 11's. Many have proven that.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Thanks for the replies guys. Im not blaming my slow times on the propain at all... I was just wondering if i was on the right track or not. Well i guess i will go back to the drawing board and try to figure out what the problem is.

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by stevemon
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Ahem
(see sig...)

That is great. For you. And the rest of the sheep around here...
It is well documented that these cars respond well to basic bolt-ons. Unfortunately, I could careless about doing it the "proven" way.

I'd love to race your car around a road course... and I'd gladly give you that extra 2 seconds into that first corner. Because you are going to need it when I out brake and out handle your GN through that corner.

Cut those of us trying something new a little slack. This hobby and these cars would die off if not for the innovators.

 

[1badTTA]

I know where both of you guys are coming from. I refuse to go out and spend lots of money on parts like turbo's injectors etc untill I max out what I already have. Recently I haven't been able to afford going to the track to beat on my car and risk breaking it to see what it is capable of. I am sure I will sometime in the future but not this month. Is high 11's possible with my car on propane? I don't see why not, but I won't be doing it anytime real soon. Ask any of the guys that have gotten into the 11's on a "stock combo" how many times they went to the track and how many passes they made before getting a 11 second timeslip. I will guess it was over 200 passes to get 11's if that was their first TR or TTA. I am just happy that I can still drive my car on the street comfortably with more boost than before. Hopefully next time I do go to the track I will be in the low 12's by the time I leave, but I am not holding my breath untill I do.

As for the original post, don't feel bad. I have around 30 passes on my car and only two 12 second timeslips. I have always tuned for the best mph and hoped for the best ET while running radials and managed to get a couple 1.9's and also a couple 12.9's along with running 111mph twice all in the same night so they all are kind of milestones and show that I am progressing in the right direction, but it took me quite a while to do it.

As for your EGT's, I have to ask what your O2's were since with that much propane I am flooding the hell out of my engine (haven't ran that much boost yet though) and if the you are burning it in the headers (possible with the propane) then it will give you false EGT readings . It is hard to say anything about your state of tune if you made a bunch of passes without changing something each pass and recording the results with the changes. Did you just start out with the largest jet and 100% duty cycle, if so then try lowering the amount of propane you are adding and see if it helps. Try lowering or raising your boost to see the effects. Lock your converter and you will automatically be in the 12's.

There are a million things you can do to try to improve your times, and making a bunch of passes without changing anything won't help you.

 

[motorhead]

Okay, that does read a bit hostile.

My point is just because you can run quick on the stock stuff doesn't mean that everyone should. You begin to run a lot of risks and strain components. This is fine if you don't have the money to buy parts, but for those of us who can see our to spending a few bucks and not run the ragged mechanical edge we don't like to be viewed as "wusses with more money than brains or talent".

The same applies to whether you want to DYI alky, an SMC kit, or Pro-Pain... it is a free country.

Give it time... someone will toss up some good numbers in the future.

 

[Bill_Ritter]

Originally posted by 1badTTA
Did you just start out with the largest jet and 100% duty cycle, if so then try lowering the amount of propane you are adding and see if it helps. Try lowering or raising your boost to see the effects. Lock your converter and you will automatically be in the 12's.

There are a million things you can do to try to improve your times, and making a bunch of passes without changing anything won't help you.

no, i started out with the second smallest jet and worked my way up. I will try some other things that you guys have suggested and back of the propane. thanks guys

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by stevemon
OK!! Great point to get some feedback on!

Who can say which is harder on the car? A stock turbo cranked up to 22-23 psi w/an acceptable level of knock or a larger turbo pushing 200 extra cfms not set to max boost?

I was speaking more in the context of injector duty cycle. Lack of fuel seems to be the biggest killer of these cars. Why would everyone preach about upgraded fuel pumps and hotwire kits if stock were good enough.

I'll be the first one to admitt that I have band-aided my car with a FMIC and the propane. Especially when you consider that some have gone "11s" on straight pump gas... again it is all relative to who and what. I am very green at this whole TR game... and it is cheaper for me to add fuel than rebuild an engine.