Pros / Cons of Aluminum and Iron Champion Heads

[2QUIK6]

Doing a complete engine rebuild now that my stock crank and factory head seal are toast.
I've been running 7.2x-7.5x consistantly for years. My goals would be to run consistant high 6's or mid-10's, but to build the engine to handle 9's and last forever running mid-10's.
Car is street driven most of the time and taken to the track 5-10 times a year. Will go with a roller cam and stroker crank.
Trying to decide if I should go Champion irons or Aluminum. Gut tells me the iron heads will last longer and be more durable for what I want to accomplish, but the better flowing and less detonation effect of the aluminum is a plus also. I always monitor for knock and always scanning/recording on the laptop, the 24 years of durability I got from the stocker should speak to how well I watch what the motor is doing.
Anything else you need to know to provide a good opinion one way or the other, let me know.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Mr.Spool]

Its really hard to beat a good set Ported irons for that 10.50 range.

 

[Boost231]

For what your looking for you'll be more then happy with a good set of ported irons.

 

[2QUIK6]

I know they can get there for the range I want to run, but would aluminum make it easier to get there and easier on the rest of the components, and be durable for what I want and the longivity? Assuming that I am not concerned about the upfront cost, I want to spend once and built it right to last.

 

[Boost231]

From the little knowledge I have. Aluminum is the way to go for sure. That's what I would use if buying new. Then again if you want to go further with the setup down the road you will have the heads to do it.

Just do a search and you will have days of reading ahead of you

 

[bison]

Iron isn't more durable, aluminum doesn't resist detonation (The ones available for these engines actually will detonate if you try to run them like irons), aluminum is lighter, aluminum will flow more on a flow bench out of the box usually but not always!, with aluminum you will likely be starting with a new head, some of the aluminum heads use inadequate rocker retention, some people use the wrong length bolts on iron and aluminum pedestal style heads, both have issues with spring pressure because of being improperly set up or set up for something else.


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[fastblackracing]

{My goals would be to run consistant high 6's or mid-10's, but to build the engine to handle 9's and last forever running mid-10's.} There is a good bit of difference between a solid 9 second capable combo that you turn down to run ten-fifties and a mid to high ten second combo. But in reference to your question A set of good ported aluminums will let you get it done on a few pounds less boost and that means lower charge air temps as a side benefit.....they are slightly more complicated with the valve gear set-up as bison eluded to and cost a good bit more when all of the needed supporting pieces are tacked on.......If you torch a head gasket with aluminums the head may need welded and resurfaced which the irons do not normally need........if you have the means to to swing the better heads and the rest of the supporting cast, I dont know what the limits of your turbo is and at that point you will be able to use some pretty serious air flow I would go aluminum......If you plan on keeping the smaller turbo I would go with the irons.......and good job on the 24 year run.......

 

[2QUIK6]

On the turbo, I would probably go to a 6266 or a 6466 at the biggest for now. Yes, there is a big difference in a 9 and mid-10s setup, I just want the bottom to be strong enough for 9s, which I think I will have with what's planned, whihc also includes gridling the 109 block, not that I ever intend to go that fast is not my goal, but run solid 10s for as long as I've ran the stocker. I'm still retaining the A/C and all of the other fully loaded luxuries of a Buick (Although I have a solid roof and no power anything)
Thanks!

 

[Eticket]

Rob, see signature.... I'd recommend aluminum all day long. Don't over cam it.... Buy a nice converter. I will tell you that the power will become too easy as smart as I know you are.

If you don't want to run deep into the nines, I don't recommend girdling it, more prone to leak and seep oil. I know how nice you stuff is....if your crank and head gaskets are gone then look into the tune.

Pm me sometime if you need to.

 

[horndog]

About 6 months I was thinking the same thing...

One difference of aluminum over irons is that aluminum usually will have larger valves and are not limited to production design like the irons.
Aluminum heads do take a different rocker arm and the spark plug is different.
The one other benefit of an aluminum head is that they are usually repairable.
I was actually leaning towards the TA 14-bolt aluminum heads, then I actually spoke with Tom at Champion(yes, I did get a hold of him and he was nice speaking with me)
For the goals I was trying to obtain, similar to yours, more mid 10s, it made sense to stay with irons. Cost for aluminum heads with scorpion rockers would of been about $2400.
Cost of irons with upgrade springs, Harland Sharp rockers was $2000.
I was leaning towards the 14 bolt heads because If i were to sell them, I can also sell them to the Stage 2 community.

I would lay it all out on what you want to buy as it will change as you start piecing it together. I had over $6,000 in new parts and that did not include crank or rods, turbo, etc

 

[2QUIK6]

Rob, see signature.... I'd recommend aluminum all day long. Don't over cam it.... Buy a nice converter. I will tell you that the power will become too easy as smart as I know you are.

If you don't want to run deep into the nines, I don't recommend girdling it, more prone to leak and seep oil. I know how nice you stuff is....if your crank and head gaskets are gone then look into the tune.

Pm me sometime if you need to.

Hey John, I see your new car has come along very well! Congrats! You need to get up this way to some of the TMCCC events! There a few of the TR folks that have been going and hangin out with a bunch of past club members that now have Camaros, Mustangs and Vettes since most of the TR guys won't come to the track anymore. The TR's are still beating those past memer's cars LOL! OR mine was.
I already have a PTS Xtreme 9x11 billet convertor 3k stall, but will have it checked and the tranny checked for any damage, not planing to change the stall as that works great on the street.
I hear you on the gridle, I've been on the fence with that but just in case I start going faster later or go with a bigger turbo later I'm leaning towards doing it now rather than later, not sure how I will handle oil leakage as that drives me nuts.
The crank journals on the mains and rods all look to be fine, no scaring or heat spots, at least the few I pulled off that I could get to since either end of the crank will not move. On the tune, it had been running 780-800mv on the NBO2 and 10.8-10.9 AFR on the WB, no knock. I jad recorded all of the previous runs that day and everything was fine. On the run that killed it, there was no knock as my eyes are always fixed on the gaauge..at least not until the engine stopped. Factory head gasket seal is still in place, no blown head gasket.

It was my understanding that I could still use the stock valve covers and rockers with the aluminum Champion heads?? horndog eludes to having to use the Scorpion rockers above. I want to keep it "stock" appearing as much as possible up top. Oh on the cam, probably a 208 or 210 would be the biggest I would go, or the 208/212 if that will work with the stock rockers....I guess I could use the spacers on the valve covers if I had too, but introducing another oil leak area.

 

[2QUIK6]

Here's a link with some pics of the carnage
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/th...-more-after-this-stock-crank-is-toast.432636/

 

[Reggie West]

Design between the stock iron and new aluminum heads are what you really should be looking at. Flow numbers tell the true story and they matter even in a turbo application. Remember boost is resistance to flow so what would you rather have? A motor that makes max power at 30 psi or one that is doing it 24 psi ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

I run stock ported irons on my car, there is a difference in the amount of timing you can run with irons versus aluminum. I am sure there will be 9 guys telling you otherwise but I tune both.

If it were me building a stroker motor from scratch I would go with TA heads, no question.

I would also suggest running a CR of 9 to 1, they are very peppy on the street and I have noticed more power at lower boost levels. I had to run more fuel at lower rpms once I changed the CR at or near the rpms the motor started to see boost (2500 to 3500 rpms)

 

[Reggie West]

Fuel choices will come into play as well. These days E85 is a viable option for the best of both worlds.

You can still run pump gas and alky on the street and strip down to mid to high 9s but your tune must be spot on.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

If and when i build my next V6 it WILL get the Aluminum heads.

 

[turbo nasty]

Another plus on the alum heads vs stock irons is the irons are thin on the deck towards the intake and they can deflect in that area compromising head gasket seal.

 

[2QUIK6]

Ok, maybe I need to create another post, if I'm leaning towards the aluminum, pros and cons (or differences) between the Champion Aluminum Heads vs the TAPerformance Aluminum heads?
I would like to keep the stock valve covers and TA Performance has one that does and can use the stock rockers, not certain about the Champions??

 

[fastblackracing]

Ok, maybe I need to create another post, if I'm leaning towards the aluminum, pros and cons (or differences) between the Champion Aluminum Heads vs the TAPerformance Aluminum heads?
I would like to keep the stock valve covers and TA Performance has one that does and can use the stock rockers, not certain about the Champions??

Here is what I can tell you....It is possible to even use stock covers on champion gn1 heads while using the scorpion chevy style rockers....BUT unless you are handy with a bridgeport and a lathe it is not possible, I had to create all kinds of clearance inside those stock covers and if you run a bigger diameter valve spring as you should it really gets interesting..........but it did work and with the heads painted black it looked stock for sure, cant say I would do it again........The power is in the turbo and the heads, the cam is as well but to a lesser extent.....reading through your post I would say that The T/A heads ported and the 6466 turbo along with a 218 cam with the good fast lobes and a good ptc non lock converter is where you are wanting to end up at......at that point you should help the bottom end out with structural reinforcements and you will be able to turn it down and run the easy 10.50's that you are after.......I recomend the T/A heads and T&D shafts over the champs And I have had champs since the beginning when they first got into the turbo regal world back in 97-98.......spend the money on the best heads and shaft rocker system you can buy.....

 

[TT/Ameasap]

TA ported heads and never look back

 

[Rodney87GN]

Ok, maybe I need to create another post, if I'm leaning towards the aluminum, pros and cons (or differences) between the Champion Aluminum Heads vs the TAPerformance Aluminum heads?
I would like to keep the stock valve covers and TA Performance has one that does and can use the stock rockers, not certain about the Champions??

If you don't mind waiting for months and enjoy getting the runaround, go with Champion.

Otherwise I would go with TA heads.

Either head will get it done, but customer service is much better at TA. That right there is a big plus for me.