Question about Intercooling

[dave84gn]

Well I want to intercool my car eventually (mainly a money issue right now), and had my heart set on the turbomotion kit, which sounds simply wicked. But, that thing costs like $1k or $1.5k doesn't it? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Why can't I: Buy an intercooler -- maybe the huge Ford intercooler people are loving over in the General Tech section for $200 to $300. Buy the turbomotion V2 intake. And make the piping myself.

Maybe I'm sounding naive, but it doesn't sound too crazy. If I could somehow get away without buying the new intake, then I'd really save some cash (what does the V2 intake cost alone?).

Questions:

How hard would it be to make up your own intercooler piping?

How do you 'turn' (twist) the intake side of the turbo so it spits out the compressed air toward the front of the car? This is what is done in the turbomotion setup, and it looks like they need to modify the configuration (maybe even change the wastegate around?)?

Thx!

Dave

 

[mike85gn]

Yeah you can do it yourself cheaper, but the gains just won't be there. Especially when using a little stock turbo with such a huge intercooler, the pressure drop will be high and the lag will be high as well. It will take that little guy longer to fill the IC with air. Your best bet, of course, is the Turbo Motion kit - 1400$ US. Spearco has an offering for 952$ US with a front mount IC. Do a search on the board, the instructions for reclocking the compressor housing can be found in a previous thread, or the installation instructions for the Spearco kit can be found on http://communities.msn.com/HotAirTurboRegalWebsite and they include compressor reclocking instructions. The IC hoses can be purchased from anywhere locally that specialises in the big rigs, Western Turbo might be able to help you there. Give 'em a call. Guy keeps trying to sell me big turbos and intercoolers and such they do good work.

 

[dave84gn]

Thanks mike.

You say I won't notice much gain with the stock turbo -- this would apply to the turbomotion kit also right? What all does the TurboMotion kit include?

It just seems to me that I could basically recreate the turbo motion kit myself for less... and with a larger intercooler, couldn't I?

Ford Intercooler ($300) + Turbomotion V2 intake ($NO IDEA) + hoses & mounting purchased locally and customly done ($100 at most?). All USD. So if the intake is something high like $600, I've already saved $400.

Doesn't that make sense?

Dave

 

[TT276stg2]

intake

Hi Dave-
I have not sold an intake by itself before but I would do whatever I can to help you make this work just the way you want. Please give me a call anytime @ 941.228.3136 and we will set you up with whatever you need.
Jay

 

[mike85gn]

The Ford intercooler is a lot bigger than stock. There is just plain more volume to fill, so with the stock turbo, you'll have more lag. With a smaller intercooler, the lag will be slightly less. Larger turbos don't have this problem, they already lag, but can fill the IC with a lot more air. Jay has offered you some custom work, I'd say your best bet is to call him. He's done all of the R&D on these babies and is in the best position to help you on this one. S'up Jay

 

[Nocooler]

Jay is the man to talk to! He'll getcha straighted around. I ran the TM i/c kit with a stock turbo and it is crazy till about 4000 revs and then the turbo can't push enough volume of air to make more power.

 

[dave84gn]

Thx guys for your input... And appreciate the msg Jay.

I guess the only thing stopping me from picking up the TM IC kit is the price. Now I realize it's not like it's over-priced, in fact, from what I've heard about the kit and how easy it is to install, that price seems excellent... especially for such a killer setup. I've heard only great things about that kit and would love to have one.

I guess what spawned my questions about doing a custom job would be the money-savings. To ship that thing up to Canada with the exchange rate and the tax will be easily over $2500 CDN

Now maybe the savings gained by going custom aren't as clearcut as I seem to think they are, because I wouldn't be getting the same performance as with the TM kit, but what I'm really after is a mild performance gain for a mild price; for now... with a good ability to push more performance out of the system later on (say, get a bigger turbo, etc).

Suggestions appreciated. Jay, I'll probably give you a call sometime... I won't be intercooling my car anytime soon since I've got the engine out now and am about to throw in a new one from a local buddy, so don't expect a call anytime soon.

Thx guys!

Dave

 

[mike85gn]

The 2500$ tag is the only thing that's stopping me, too. 1400$ canadian??? Call it mine. Maybe next season

 

[cool 84]

I think the TM intake with the Ford intercooler would be great. I plan on trying that combo as soon as I have the money for the intake. The IC gets ordered on Monday. I seriously doubt there will be any more lag. Big intercoolers won't make more lag. Like I've said a million times before. I went from no intercooler to a spearco FM with a ton of tubing and saw no difference in spool whatsoever. That was with a stock turbo. My turbo was the last thing upgraded and in my experience the intake and intercooler will make it pull harder but like someone already said at 4,000 rpm it falls on it's face.

 

[dave84gn]

Glad to hear someone else is interested in the bigger cooler

So here I am looking for a cheap way to intercool my car... I didn't even think about spearco. I really know nothing about this kit, but apparently you don't need a new intake, just some rearranging of stuff. I know this isn't the greatest for performance but maybe I could use the same ideas/setup to rig up the cheap ford intercooler.

If I could buy the intercooler and then do some mods to my turbo/etc and then if all I need on top of that is piping/mounts, that'd save a LOT of cash. Any thoughts?

Where can I find out how spearco intercoolers hook up to 84/85s? Pictures would be preferred. Their website didn't tell me anything.

Thanks!

Dave

 

[cool 84]

I think Louie has pictures. The IC itself bolts right up with no drilling or anything. The turbo comes off, you loosen the bolts holding the compressor housing so you can rotate it forward. Wastegate has to come off too. Install the new elbow in the manifold, install turbo, install plumbing and you're done. You have to slightly grind on part of the core support for the plumbing to fit. The first time it took half a day to install. I could probably do it in about an hour now. Bottom 12s should be no problem with this unit.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Probably will get no answer on this but..

Does anyone have any times with this setup yet?(TM) I am curious what the gains are with the turbomotion compared to the spearco w/throttle body relocation.Maybe I missed it but I've been waiting for results and have not seen any.

 

[mike85gn]

Someone ran an 11.9 if I'm not mistaken...

 

[TT276stg2]

E.T.s

Turbo Buick Six- We went 12.40 with a motor that would retard timing to 10* as soon as it would launch. We were not happy with 12.40 but we did post it on all the BBs when it ran those #s. Unfortunatly it was before the big crash so none of our results are archived. I am more concernd with the cars MPH, those are the #s that show us improvement or not. Some cars not all are gaining 10/12 MPH. We gained 7 MPH in the example above, but the problem was found and fixed so now we can see some low to mid 20s of advace timing thru the traps. I believe it will pick the car up. I hope some of these #s help out.
jay

 

[TType85]

With the TM kit, atr headers, a larger cam, a TA-54 turbo and a 3500 stall converter I gained 16mph at 17psi

went from running 96mph close to stock to running 112mph with stock heads still.

I fully expect to see mid-low 120mph with race gas, race chip and good traction.

Jays welding and fabricating skills are top notch. It is well worth the $1400US he charges for it.

Once I get some race runs in with the 54 turbo I want to go to a TA-66

 

[TurboBuickSix]

It's too bad these cars are not more common(hot-airs)Then we would be able to get more data on this and come up with some average improvements to expect.Also for comparative testing against against other conversion setups whatever they may be.I would love to see into the future a year or two when some solid recipes that complement the TM setup come thru for those solid 11+ or- timeslips.It would be nice to see how well it would do if everything were (yeah right)perfect i.e, trans,electronics,tune,traction,weather,etc.I am ready for more power and just ain't sure which way to go.Yes I admit I have thought of going "the easy way"(flame suit on)with the 86-87 setup,but on the other hand if the kit works and is reliable then it's a no brainer.

 

[mike85gn]

Going '86-'87 is a no-brainer, all of the guesswork is eliminated for you. However, even those of the intercooled persuasion find the TM kit very appealing, simply because of the high flow rates and efficiency (right Louie?). The numbers that Dave (S&S) posted before showed gains over stock 84-84 and 86-87 setups. Definately interesting in terms of what could be done with GN1's and a nice billet roller and big turbo/intercooler/converter combo. 10's on a TM'd hot air should be possible eventually, we'll just have to see who hits it first.

 

[KendallF]

Originally posted by mike85gn
Going '86-'87 is a no-brainer, all of the guesswork is eliminated for you. However, even those of the intercooled persuasion find the TM kit very appealing, simply because of the high flow rates and efficiency (right Louie?). The numbers that Dave (S&S) posted before showed gains over stock 84-84 and 86-87 setups. Definately interesting in terms of what could be done with GN1's and a nice billet roller and big turbo/intercooler/converter combo. 10's on a TM'd hot air should be possible eventually, we'll just have to see who hits it first.

Porting an 86-7 intake for similar flow gains and balance is a heckuva lot easier. Having said that, there's no reason this setup won't run the big numbers. My money is on Lee Thompson (no intercooler either), then probably my fellow IRC hanger-outer Chris W, then Dennis in Orlando (who is the guy running 11.90s with the TM setup).

 

[mike85gn]

Dennis! That's him! I knew I wasn't on crack. Where's he at???

 

[TT276stg2]

tm kit

Turbo buicksix- You are so right about the amount of cars out there. And about it taking time to see what combos really work the best with this setup. I have asked for people to call back with some sort of feed back on there combos ect... but I usually dont ever hear from them again. We have had some feed back but its really earlly in the game to say what DOES work and what DOES NOT work. Maybe one day in the future those things will be mapped out to make combo decisions alot easier.

Hey Chris. I bet your car is a blast to drive, I hope to see it run some day. I have yet to see Dennis's car go. He went 11.90 on a t33 and has since gone to a pte 52 I believe, but I have not heard any other feed back since the up-grade. I do know he is very busy with his new indevor making those sweet trunk kits and hood liners.

Mike- Its really kewl to see you getting very involved with these cars. Guys like you are the reason for all the chatting about these hot-airs. Keep up the good work!

Kendall- Are you going w/ a rev kit or a gear drive by chance. I just found out today that Oddy's machined the block wrong for the gear drive and I m not really sure where to turn at this time. I need to come up with something cuz my goal is to have the motor complete in 10 days or so. Thats from oil pan to 90mm TB to both turbos. So feel free to come down and help K ill drop in and chat 2nite.

Gotta jet take care all.
jay