Question about Intercooling

[WFO]

yep,it should be interesting when we all get up and tuned...

tranny should be done this week,and installed with my new pts 9/11 convertor hopefully this next weekend.will advise.

later,sean

 

[crazygn]

I sent you some pic of my sperco set up ,hope it helps

 

[KendallF]

Re: tm kit

Originally posted by TT276stg2

Kendall- Are you going w/ a rev kit or a gear drive by chance. I just found out today that Oddy's machined the block wrong for the gear drive and I m not really sure where to turn at this time. I need to come up with something cuz my goal is to have the motor complete in 10 days or so. Thats from oil pan to 90mm TB to both turbos. So feel free to come down and help K ill drop in and chat 2nite.

Gotta jet take care all.
jay

I wish I could come down..I think you and Dave have more experience than I, though. I am planning to run the gear drive; in fact, when I got my block, it had the gear drive still on the front of it, attached to the front 1/3 of the cam! I should've taken some pics of it set up. Mine bolts into the cam oil galley plugs, with maybe one more bolt..I would have to go take pics of the front of the block to be sure. I can do that for you if it would help.

I have the rev kit too; I don't think you need any machining there as it just rests against the bottom of the heads (as long as you have the offset lifters). You may need to clearance the pushrod holes; Dan Strezo told me that's pretty much a necessity on most heads.

Good luck! I want to see that thing run!

 

[mike85gn]

Yeah Dave! I forgot to add the Spearco kit worked great for some guys. Don't hesitate to consider it, because you can upgrade to the TM-style v.2 intake and relocated TB later if I'm not mistaken, and use the sweet Spearco FM core. That would be nice

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Jay,thanks for taking the time to respond.Your product and your support of it has renewed my confidence to stick with the hotair motor.As soon as it's feasable I will be hooking up with this kit,I just have more important matters to attend to with this POS first.Keep up the good work,I really think this project will be very successful once it gets going.And you guys not giving the feedback are slowing the development of it.Info you provide can only come back to help you improve later.Sorry if I seem exited, but I never imagined 10's being possible. later , Dave S

 

[dave84gn]

Hey guys, I'm back from the lake.

My last post made it sound like I was considering the spearco intercooler, what I meant was: I want to hook up the Ford intercooler in the same way that the spearco one hooks up. I will definitely need different and custom piping than the spearco kit.

cool84: what do you think would be involved in this? From pics I've seen of the ford cooler, the pipes come out of it in the center of each side facing back. So any pipes that hook up to it would have to be bent about 90* right where it connects.

So what I'm thinking is: put in an electric fan to free up tons of room. Somehow mount the huge ford intercooler in the new freed up space. rotate my turbo, run a pipe from the output of the turbo to the passenger side input of the intercooler, then run another pipe from the driver side output of the intercooler around the driverside of the car (like the spearco) then around behind to the intake manifold.

Does this sound possible? I hear people talking about modifying their throttle body w/the spearco kit, what's this about?

Thx!

Dave

 

[cool 84]

My Ford IC will be here tomorrow so I will have some first hand knowledge to share soon. From the pictures I've seen the tanks are wider than the radiator and come out straight forward to the side of the radiator. I'm going to the diesel store and buying silicone hoses and clamps and Napa and buying misc. bends in their exhaust section. When I find something that works for the hotairs I will post part #s.

I'm really scared I jumped the gun with this IC since it really hasn't been tested much. I know the cooling will be there but I'm worried about the flow.

 

[dave84gn]

Well the 86-87 guys seem to get good results with it. For me, and for the price I don't think I could go wrong.

So you're thinking of mounting it infront of the radiator? Will it take the place of the radiator and the radiator will move more toward the back of the car... or what did you have in mind? How does your AC condensor fit into all of this?

I've never really thought about mounting it infront, i was thinking I'd throw my intercooler between the rad and the engine like the TM kit does, since we have so much space there without the fan shroud & mechanical fan. But with the pipes coming out straight forward, I don't know if I'd even have enough room, so maybe in front of the rad would be best anyway, plus u'd get better cooling.

If you can give me any more ideas/feedback that would be great about whether it's workable or not, even though you really don't know much of the details yourself yet. I may have found one for a good price, but only available for a few days.

Thx!

Dave

 

[IRaceAV6]

Yes I admit I have thought of going "the easy way"(flame suit on)with the 86-87 setup,but on the other hand if the kit works and is reliable then it's a no brainer.

Clearly your not the one swapping in a '87 T motor into an '84 GN with the "Hot-Air" harness. It isn't a no-brainer swap! It has been a challenge to do this... hand tools and a two-car garage.
I wanted to do it because I too assumed it would be easy... ha ha ha... yeah right! This has been nothing but a pure pain in the ars. There is no information out there posted for somebody to freely copy... and I have had to search for information from those who pulled off this "no brainer" swap.

Where can I find out how spearco intercoolers hook up to 84/85s? Pictures would be preferred.

http://communities.msn.com/hotairturbobuickwebsite (You'll have to sign up and join)

I hooked up a Spearco setup to the V2 intake... it took a little effort and some piping modifications. I will set it up next spring after the girdled motor gets out of the shop (installing a solid roller cam and having a set of steel heads done)

Definately interesting in terms of what could be done with GN1's and a nice billet roller and big turbo/intercooler/converter combo. 10's on a TM'd hot air should be possible eventually, we'll just have to see who hits it first.

Yes... I'd say the big race is on isn't it? Plenty of competition out there... why are my ears always ringing?

 

[dave84gn]

Woah! Should have done this BEFORE I got all excited... went out to take some measurements around the front of my car to see if the huge ford IC would fit. Well, from the info I have, the core is 30x18x2 inches. and with the side ports (3 inch piping) the total width is 38.5 inches. So I whip out my measuring tape and WHOLY SH!T, that is a lot of inches.

There's no way I could fit that IC between the radiator and engine, but it would probably fit in front of the radiator but there would definitely be some space issues... Definitely some new bracket work and most likely cutting involved. Not something I want to get into.

When I consider all the pain and endless problems that would be involved in doing something like this, I start to realize why the turbomotion kit is all that much more worth it So if I ever get some money again, I'll probably go for it.

If anyone's interested in the ford intercooler (very interesting stuff), check out the topic in the general tech area titled 'ford intercooler'. Also, here's one for sale on ebay ($200):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594326381

Thx for everyone's input on this... looks like I won't be intercooling my car for a while, unless another cheap alternative crops up for consideration.

Dave

ps. cool84, let me know how it goes!!! If you have some success I may reconsider things... I'm REALLY curious how you're going to mount this baby. Good luck man, that's an awesome intercooler.

 

[IRaceAV6]

Buy a used Spearco system...

You can always upgrade to the V2 intake after experiencing intercooling. Spearco systems show up on ebay.com all the time and in the Turbo TRader. $300 to $450 (I wouldn't pay anything above that... let them sleep with it if they want more than that... and yes that is an open dig at another board member who wanted $700 for his...) He is still sleeping with it.

 

[cool 84]

I spent about 10 minutes tonight and removed the grill and bumper in preparation for the intercooler. Hopefully I won't have to remove the whole front end but if I do it's not that big of a deal. I hope I can get a digital camera for the install. I'm not prepared to lose my bright lights like the other people so I will find a way around it.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Originally posted by IRaceAV6


Clearly your not the one swapping in a '87 T motor into an '84 GN with the "Hot-Air" harness. It isn't a no-brainer swap! It has been a challenge to do this... hand tools and a two-car garage.
I wanted to do it because I too assumed it would be easy... ha ha ha... yeah right! This has been nothing but a pure pain in the ars. There is no information out there posted for somebody to freely copy... and I have had to search for information from those who pulled off this "no brainer" swap.

If it were me it WOULD be a no brainer.Reason being, I would have obtained the proper harness and done it right the first time preserving my original harness as well.Sorry,no spaghettti under this hood,easily worth the 500 dollar price tag IMO.Postons sells 86-87 harnesses maybe you should take a look,it may make it a bit easier on you.

 

[IRaceAV6]

adapt... overcome... "Hot-Rodding!"

If it were me it WOULD be a no brainer.Reason being, I would have obtained the proper harness and done it right the first time preserving my original harness as well.Sorry,no spaghettti under this hood,easily worth the 500 dollar price tag IMO.Postons sells 86-87 harnesses maybe you should take a look,it may make it a bit easier on you.

Why spend $500 on a harness when you can move wiring around (with some effort), and after accomplishing some research to find out the previously unknown differences between the year groups, why not then share that info with an appreciative community? It may be assumed that I'm going out of my way to get into a situation somewhat over my head... ok... but by doing so and working through the situation I'll figure it all out for other '84/'85 owner's benefit and guess what? Save them $500!

Hot-Rodding is about overcoming, and adapting. I have the money to buy a harness and that would have been the easy way out of the situation. As for Poston's... sorry... but they won't get any money from me anytime soon after the last purchase... but that's another story.

BTW I threw that $500 at a $720 dual stage Compucar Nitrous System

 

[TT276stg2]

Kendall-
The gear drive mounts with 4 bolts. All the machining has been done. But the prob lies with the crank gear to idler gear mesh. If gear drive is mounted in the holes just machined and you lay the crank in the bearings the idler gear comes into contact too soon and holds the crank a few .000 off the bearing shell.
The only machining that had to be done for the rev kit was to make room for the spring adapters on the valley wall.
Im off subject here so I was very very brief and Ill stop know. K man ill call you to talk about this later.
jay

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Re: adapt... overcome... "Hot-Rodding!"

Originally posted by IRaceAV6


Why spend $500 on a harness when you can move wiring around (with some effort), and after accomplishing some research to find out the previously unknown differences between the year groups, why not then share that info with an appreciative community?

This information probably will not be needed that often anyways if at all because in most cases you get the harness as part of the complete drivetrain purchase anyways(at least you should IMO).It is important to protect the value of the vehicle to most also,have'nt you ever had anyone tell you"save all your original parts"Why would you want to subject yourself to potential electrical problems down the line?The new harness would eliminate alot of BS and soldering not to mention look,"right". These harnesses are starting to get old anyways and many of your wires will be tarnished with a black tint (oxidation)making it difficult to solder them.That same black tint may also introduce resistance into your sophisticated engine electronics and cause mysterious problems that will make you lose the rest of your hair. BTW could you please define"appreciative community"?Then again nevermind,I think I know what you were trying to say.Good luck with your project,I hope it turns out as you would like it to be.Dave S

4k on rebuild,running strong,sure is sweet to have er rollin Nearest track is 2hrs away but I will visit soon.There is one closer but it is only an 1/8th miler(waste of time).

 

[IRaceAV6]

It is important to protect the value of the vehicle to most also,have'nt you ever had anyone tell you"save all your original parts"

Yes... it is important to save all those original parts. Some day they will be worth their weight in gold. Unfortunately they aren't worth anything at this moment so if your going to cut up your car and financially get away with it; one would assume now is the time to do so.

As for my '84 GN it had already been altered by previous owners long before I ever touched it. I don't feel any guilt in cutting it up and changing it - I have saved many of the original parts A purist will always have heartburn with some of us in the turbo Regal community. A purist wants the turbo Regal to remain "stock appearing."

The V2 intake definitely isn't "stock appearing" and neither is a conversion to the '87 T motor. To each their own IMO. It's your car... and this is America... the legal system hasn't reached out and plucked away totally your right to modify you car - they are moving in that direction though and that is another story.

I'm surprised no writeups have been provided on how to accomplish an '87 motor conversion considering how many '84/'85 cars have been converted. IMO when something new comes down the pike that can be accomplished by someone else in our midst we should share that information.

As for an 1/8th mile track... in that aspect I am a drag-racing purist and reflect the 1960's/1970's attitude regarding our hobby. It was a hobby with grassroots created by guys who upon returning back from WW2 with mechanical skills learned in the war that they applied to the modified vehicles of their day. They raced from a 1/4 mile point by someone waving a hand held flag and no X-mas tree. In the '70's it was done on freshly paved asphalt streets outside of town from the start of a 1/4 mile point with a guy holding a flashlight.

Those 1/8th mile tracks are nothing more than a reflection of land prices getting excessively expensive and race track owners not making enough money to compensate for rising land values and overlooked potential profit from selling out. Again that is my opinion... an opinion gained from watching S. California's race tracks fold up and blow away. My idea of a 30 yard track with a street light as a starting tree followed by a 100 yard shutdown and some added technological advancements in figuring out horsepower and torque wpould surely grasp the attention of the Rice crowd. Maybe NHRA and IHRA would sanction and financially back the idea? I see lot's of dollar signs for my innovative idea
Nope... not joking. If 1/8th mile tracks have any appeal why not a 130 to 150 yard facility? A few hotdog stands, some well placed bleachers, and some parking. Heads up action just like you would see on Main Street, USA. Definitely safer and it has that street racer appeal. I thought up the idea first! It is posted on the Internet with date and time too! Show me the $$$$!!!!

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Louie,If we see eye to eye on anything it is those damn 1/8th mile tracks! There was talk of building a giant racing complex in Niagara Falls complete with1/4 mile track and some sort of oval type track going around the 1/4 to host nascar and the others that require that type of track.But like so many other ideas it fizzled out and we don't hear anymore about it.I think this would be a good deterent to some crimes as it would give the kids(yes the ricers too)something to do that is at least a little productive.Unfortunately all they want to see are the $$ signs.Not to mention the few that had to b!tch and complain about it.

 

[turbowrenchhead]

How in the h*ll are you guys fitting the F250 diesel i/c in our cars. I work at a dealership and I measured the i/c and it is huge. It is way to wide.

 

[TurboBuickSix]

looky here...

http://www.angelfire.com/super/buickgn/Powerstroke_page.html