Quick main question..

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Wow. Good **** there. Basically, if you keep the knock to nil, you can beat the CRAP outta these things huh...
For me, stage one will be a completely stock engine, but with a forged crank, and billet mains all the way down. TA61 w/ bmr's 4" integral maf tube, 3" thdp w/dump, 10" ptc 2800 rpm stall, 23 row slic, manual boost controller, 009's, hofer trans, powerplate on stock upper, poly motor mounts both sides, and all the supporting suspension and cooling mods needed.
Stage 1.5 will be an alky system, and stage 2 will be the addition of a better breathing upper half (heads cam manifold plenum uppipe) and the rest of the supporting driveline mods to help longevity (driveshaft/yokes/spicers/diff/axles)
Just lookin for a healthy mid 11 car, that isn't killin itself to do it. I've no real inclination to go faster than that. I just want a quick street car.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Just pulled apart my 109 block that I been beating on for about four years. It had a steel crank and 3 steel forward mains. I really pushed the motor hard. Not so much at the track but I drove it hard on the street. 25psi and 25deg timing. The block cracked on #2 main web. It went all the way up to the cam bearing. Once the strength was gone, #2 cam bearing walked out of the block and exposed the oil hole. Oil pressure went south.

Luckily I caught it in time. No damage to the crank, rods or pistons. The stuff still looks new. :biggrin:

 

[joe_schindler]

.... When we finally took it apart the bearing were wore very bad on one side and looked fine on the other. (crank twist) ...
Mike

Which side?

 

[joe_schindler]

Wow. Good **** there. Basically, if you keep the knock to nil, you can beat the CRAP outta these things huh...
....

No; onece the CRAP has been beat out of them; there's nothing left.

 

[ALVAROG1983]

Dam

most break caps because of detonation not because of power. I had over 10 minutes of wide open throttle at 600+hp on one and the caps held up and still looked really good on the mating surfaces. At one point before it cracked the piston it was over 700hp/tq

dam and i thought all along 500hp was its limit.

 

[joe_schindler]

girldles are cheaper? I thought they were more expensive. What about the maching to do one. Isn't that more expensive?

My quick check shows:

RJC Girdle with Scraper $470 (+ $10 more for 1984 version)

Set of 4 ProGram Mains $555 (yes; you can save $300 by not getting the rear one)

Now figure the machine shop charge for fitting 3 or 4 caps; along with everything else (align bore or hone if you can get away with it); and the girdle probably does cost less. Maybe not a lot less; but; in my opinion; it’s stronger.

Eventually a mid 11 second car will destroy the engine. I don’t know how long that will take. As Mike points out; there are plenty of very fast stock blocks. Eventually they will fail also.

My personal opinion; for what it’s worth; in order of what will fail first:

Cam/lifters
Pistons
Block
Transmission
Crank
Rods
Rear axle

I don’t really count rings and bearings as I consider those consumables.

I’ve probably left lots of stuff off the list; and I haven’t given performance limits to any of these. I’m sure there are plenty that will disagree with me. I’m sure they will happily break something just to prove me wrong.

There’s a very simple formula for figuring out how all of this fits together:

ET = How fast do I want to go?
$ = How much money can I spend?
T = How long do I want it to last?

They are all related.

Where T = the number of runs you can make at a potential ET:

T = ET * $

While this equation is not perfect; there is at least a proportional relationship between the amount of money you spend; how hard you run something; and how long it will last. The faster you go; the more it cost.

Over the years; I’ve broken lots of stuff; nothing I’m real proud of.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I read here somewhere, a loong time ago, about how difficult it was to get a girdle to fit PROPERLY, and how you gotta use all sorts of different stuff like oil pan, pickup, etc etc. It sorted intimidated me... Maybe I should do more research...

 

[DailyDrifter]

I read here somewhere, a loong time ago, about how difficult it was to get a girdle to fit PROPERLY, and how you gotta use all sorts of different stuff like oil pan, pickup, etc etc. It sorted intimidated me... Maybe I should do more research...

You have to have a competent machine shop do it. You cant do it in your back yard. You can use the stock pan, and they have a spacer for the pickup tube. Or use the RJC deep pan, and a bigger spacer.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Well I did a little research, and everything points to a girdle. I hear it's cheaper to install, and only about 50 bucks more expensive to purchase... Does this sound about right?
There's less machining involved as well. Do I have this correct?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Am I on track?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I found it way cheeper to go with just billet mains especially if only doing the center 2, the machine work was somewhat involved, but simple. the hardest part was trying to figure out how to alignbore and hone the mains with the heads on............

thats the F'n hard part.... trying to machine with the heads on.

I think there is alot more room for error IMO when it comes to the girdle, there are more critical points to have to measure correctly in order for it to be installed properly. IMO if its not installed 100% right, it will distort the bottom end when tightend up.

A.j.

 

[joe_schindler]

I found it way cheeper to go with just billet mains especially if only doing the center 2, the machine work was somewhat involved, but simple. the hardest part was trying to figure out how to alignbore and hone the mains with the heads on............

thats the F'n hard part.... trying to machine with the heads on.

It probably does cost less to do just the two centers. I don’t have a way to measure any of the gains for doing 2, 3, or 4 mains vs. a girdle; or a girdle and any number of billet mains.

I think there is alot more room for error IMO when it comes to the girdle, there are more critical points to have to measure correctly in order for it to be installed properly.

True; I would expect there is a little more math to be done.

IMO if its not installed 100% right, it will distort the bottom end when tightend up.

A.j.

Again; probably true. But; the bottom end is going to distort as soon as you turn the key.

 

[joe_schindler]

Am I on track?

Hard to tell.

Neither are backyard projects. Both are going to cost some money. I don't think the amount of money saved either way would buy a new set of pistons or a nice set of rods.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Hard to tell.

Neither are backyard projects. Both are going to cost some money. I don't think the amount of money saved either way would buy a new set of pistons or a nice set of rods.

Yup. I'm waitin' on a quote for both, from Mr. Diers. If it's within a hundred bucks, ****in' why not... Then, if I decide to turn up the wick in the future, then I have a little peace of mind. This is important for me, as **** like this genuinely keeps me up in the middle of the night. Bottom end strength has always been a concern with me. Even as a teenager, I fretted over this type of ****.... Well..... I guess I've just sorta answered my own question now, haven't I......

 

[bison]

thats the F'n hard part.... trying to machine with the heads on.

I

Machinists often use torque plates installed on each side to machine it.

 

[joe_schindler]

Machinists often use torque plates installed on each side to machine it.

I don't have torque plates; but I've got plenty of old heads. Maybe if I just mill the tops off of 'em.

 

[bison]

I don't have torque plates; but I've got plenty of old heads. Maybe if I just mill the tops off of 'em.

Thats a lot of milling but it cold be done

 

[joe_schindler]

I don’t think a band saw would be enough precision; but might make a good first pass. There would still be a lot of milling to get the combustion chambers removed.

Guess I’ll just stick with nothing.

 

[joe_schindler]

I don’t think a band saw would be enough precision; but might make a good first pass. There would still be a lot of milling to get the combustion chambers removed.

Guess I’ll just stick with nothing.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Machinists often use torque plates installed on each side to machine it.

right which is what I had planned on, but my machinest insisted that the heads pull the block differently than the deck plates will. particularly on the mains, which was his concern during line bore and hone.

is that true?

My machinest isnt a buick guy by heart, But swears this is what Ruggles, and Bell would suggest.

A.j.