R12 - Freeze12 - R134 -- what's the best?

[Nick Micale]

A local A/C supplier handles Freeze-12. When I talked with them about it, their experience is that it workd well even in our temps.

Will get current pricing from them tomorrow and post the info. Never knew it was required to be certified for that. Maybe since my certification is on file there it was never brought up?

 

[dgreene]

I used to buy Freeze 12 by the case no questions asked, that is untill this year. Now, it seems, you do have to have a certification to buy the stuff. Luckily I have a friend with a certification so I got it anyway. I bought a 30 lb. drum of it for $70. It works like a champ.

By the way, that 70 price is what the shops get it for, not retail.

 

[Nick Micale]

The local price of Freeze12 is $6.00 a can. It is compatible with R-12 systems although Ester oil is recommended. The "install kit" consists of port adapter fittings that are unique to Freeze12. This would alert anyone else servicing the system it is not charged with R-12. Decals are available too.

Guess I will do a Regal with Freeze12 to personally see how well it works. Reports are that it cools better than the 134a conversion in a Regal.

This would help a lot of people here as the 110+ temps make A/C NOT an option!

 

[Boston GN]

Is there any way at home to figure out where a leak may be in the system, since we are on the topic. Mine was charged right before I bought the car but the owner says there must be a leak because it all disappeared soon after.

 

[OneLethal87GN]

I was peeking around Wal-Mart yesterday and seen a kit for detecting and repairing leaking a/c systems. I also looked for Freeze12 but only found a different selection of 134a stuff.

 

[Steve Wood]

You might check as I seem to recall a lot of complaints about Freeze 12 and short compressor life.

134a seems to have no negative effect on compressor life but I certainly have not seen it cool as well in a conversion. I put a variable orifice in my son's car a few weeks ago and it seems to be colder than my car but I am not sure if it is the orifice or not at this time. At idle, I don't see much difference so it may be the front mount on my car that causes it not to cool as well at speed.

The variable orifice is $25 at Autozone as compared to $2 for the standard one.

 

[NC87GN]

Go to your local delaer and they have a tester which detects leaks in an AC system. My GN lines were leaking on the drivers side where the aluminum joins the the rubber. It was a result of moving my original AC lines to run over the K&N causing them to bend.. HTH


Mike Banas
87GN

 

[salvageV6]

I had the exact same problem as Mike posted above with the GN when I put the K+N on it. Could see the vapor escape and hear the hiss when the line moved. I made sure the filter no longer moves the lines as they will leak out the good stuff R12 in that car.

Check the lines.

 

[lyonsd]

You get what you pay for still holds true.

You pay more for R12. You get more "cold" with R12.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by Steve Wood
You might check as I seem to recall a lot of complaints about Freeze 12 and short compressor life.

134a seems to have no negative effect on compressor life but I certainly have not seen it cool as well in a conversion. ......

Took your advise Steve, checked with some of my friends with repair shops around town. The Freeze12 conversion works well, BUT shortens compressor life drastically. Like 134a, it does not carry oil around the system very well. It is similar to 134a in many ways. The 134a conversions also will be very hard on old, original compressors.

The general opinion I received, spend the extra few dollars on
R-12, if that is the system originally in the vehicle. There are many owners that say the conversions work fine for them, however in our loooong summer weeks of 110 degree temps, these conversions do not cool well and have a short life.

Since we still have a ample supply of R-12 locally, at a somewhat reasonable [$30 a can] price, guess I will stick with that.

 

[Steve Wood]

I had not heard anything about 134a and compressor life but I guess that explains why they now suggest using 8 ozs of oil on a clean start rather than 6-if the lack of oil circulation is the problem.

I agree (after having two cars on 134a) that I should have paid the price for R12

 

[glenn c]

This is what I use works great in our R-12 systems, completly compatible and ozone safe. No license required.

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm

 

[49-blues]

do you also know that if the epa catch you venting freon to the atmosphere, that it is a $25,000.00 fine-who wants to be the first to get caught to prove that they re really out there?

 

[Snappy6]

Freeze 12

STOP !!! Do not use Freeze 12 in any of your vehicles . One of the main parts of Freeze 12 is PROPANE. For those of you that live in Az, CA, it is aginst the law to sell or install it in your vehicle.
If you have a leak in your evaporator inside the vehicle and you smoke you could be putting yourself and your GN at risk. Anything electrical could trigger it . A leaking condenser , line , fitting anything under the hood could set it a blaze .
Look at all the ignition sources that are under the hood of your vehicle . Ignition System , Exhaust Manifolds just to name a few.
Is it worth the risk , take your vehicle to a good repair shop and let them do the job right .
I have converted my to 134A and the system works fine use PAG oil when doing the convertion 8oz. is the amount you need . Match it oz. for oz. R12 / 134A . You are putting 134A into a system that was designed for R12 and yes the pressure is going to run a little higher . It's because you may need a bigger condenser. 134a doesn't disapate heat as well as R12 . To help combat this use a small pusher fan on the part of the condenser that you can get at to help with heat transfer .

And just to let you know that I'm not just blowing smoke I am ASE Cert. in A/C and was trained by Ford in there ASSET program . I have done about 50 to 75 covertions to date .
What can I say I'm a Ford guy with a passion for Buicks .

 

[salvageV6]

Since you are certified and all is there any truth to the rumor that R134a actually has a lower flashpoint than Propane?

Just wondering?

 

[national]

Well ive used freeze 12 several times with good luck..cools great & uses about same amount as regular r12 unlike some other knock offs...some 134a cars dont cool good & yet others will run you out of them..dont know why
Also...find someone that sells duracool & let them show you the pics they usually keep of the cars that have exploded that was using 134a & was supposedly linked to a leak with 134a..several cop cars & regular newer model cars that i seen & read articles about..looks to me like 134a is just as bad as any out threre..also..some of the articles the duracool man had also showed cases where guys using it inhaled 134a & dies a lil later from inhaling it.that scares me truth or not..i dont wanna take the chance..its all politics...i dont think r12 was hurting a thing..someone was paid off bigger somewhere om sure
Brian

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: Freeze 12

Originally posted by Snappy6
STOP !!! Do not use Freeze 12 in any of your vehicles . One of the main parts of Freeze 12 is PROPANE. For those of you that live in Az, CA, it is aginst the law to sell or install it in your vehicle.
If you have a leak in your evaporator inside the vehicle and you smoke you could be putting yourself and your GN at risk. Anything electrical could trigger it ........

Don't know about the rest of your post, but no where in Arizona have I seen or heard it is illegal to sell or use Freeze12.???. If you can provide me with this information, I would appreciate it.

As far as 134a conversions "working fine", it may in most other areas of the country. When you have used it for a long, hot summer of 4-5 months of continuous 100+ degree temps, then
see how well it works, and what parts give out with the higher head pressures? Pusher fans and larger condensers are not an viable option on a Regal.

Like lots of subjects on this, and other boards, there are many different conditions that apply to solutions, some better than others. Depends lots on what is the final goal. In this case, location has much to do with "best" solutions.

I don't know about Ford dealers there, but here, no dealers or major shops do A/C conversions, simple reason, they are a big problem and do not work as good as the original system.

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: You get what you pay for still holds true.

Originally posted by lyonsd
You pay more for R12. You get more "cold" with R12.

Dave, guess after all that has been said, your simple words really say it best. after all, we are talking about 15 year old Regals? Want to be cool, pay the price!

 

[MeanBuicks]

Re: Freeze 12

Originally posted by Snappy6
STOP !!! Do not use Freeze 12 in any of your vehicles . One of the main parts of Freeze 12 is PROPANE... A leaking condenser , line , fitting anything under the hood could set it a blaze .

That's strange because Freeze 12 is advertised as being non-flammable.

 

[Snappy6]

Go to a shop that has a refridgerant Identifer and have him test your a/c system for propane . Your better shops have one of these units and can tell you what is in your system. Better safe than sorry .
Propane also has the best heat transfer of all the Blends that might be why your system works so well. Think About It .