Random Tuning Question...

[Crazi]

As I get my car back together and learn how to tune with the wideband and translator pro, I am still thinking about tuning it like I did back in 2002-2003. Start with safe boost and turn it up a little at a time until it knocks or runs lean.

So here is the question... Currently, I am running 23 degrees of timing (up from 19 one degree at a time) and have run 25# of boost (up from 15# one pound or so at a time). All the while cautiously looking for knock or leanness. AFR has been in the low 10's (10.1-10.3). So I settled on the boost and timing where they are and have starting pulling fuel out a few % at a time which REALLY woke the car up. Normally I would do third gear rolling starts to get an idea of whether it would lean out or knock and even though the scanmaster would read as low as 680's, the wideband afr always showed a safe number. All of this is on 93 pump gas. Does this tune sound weird to anyone?? I hear that over 20 psi is risking it on pump gas especially with higher timing. But should I continue to turn it up since it doesn't knock?

PS, I have a set of valve springs ready to go on the car as soon as I can get shop time. Everything else is in my signature. Wideband correction is set for 10.9 but I added a bunch of fuel to keep it safe in the high load range on the TPro until I got to tuning the fuel curve.

 

[TurboDave]

You stated that you're running 25# of boost and 23 deg. of timing on 93 octane pump gas (only??). I doubt that as possible at all, but wait, then I read further into you sig where you show and alky kit installed.

So, is all this on straight 93, or 93 + alky? Words mean something.

And since you're running a Translator Pro, I hope you've upraded your Extender Extreme to an Extender Pro !!!!

I'm also assuming you must have wideband correction turned off. You stated you have correction set to 10.9, but "added a bunch" of fuel. If correction was on it should have kept it near 10.9

 

[kidglok]

Are you sure your knock sensor is plugged in?


Btw today's pump gas isnt what it was even in 2003

 

[jasjamz]

It has to be on pump and alky. You try 23*of timing, 25 psi , in 3rd gear on straight 93 and you will be riding home in the passenger seat of a flatbed tow truck LOL! Either that or your boost gauge is off by 15psi.

 

[Crazi]

Thanks for the help guys... This is all with no alky. Haven't turned it on because of the thread about alky pooling and cause a lean out with wideband correction turned on.

Just checked my order and you are correct TurboDave, its the chip for the Translator Pro. Didn't realize that it was called an Extender Pro... Thought it was an Extreme for the pro.

Kidglok, Knock sensor is plugged in and works as I see knock when the car spins from time to time.

Jasjamz, Boost gauge is pretty accurate as the Pro's read out matches the boost gauge almost exactly.

Guess its time to put the timing confirmation features of the TR6 to work AND to verify what the timing is set to in the chip. Does the timing that's added in the TPro get added to the chip or does it override the chip and set the timing to what you program in?

 

[jasjamz]

You Sir have a winner! Now please don't keep doing that. Its very unsual, and almost scary!

 

[blackgn1]

I just can't see that kind of tune on only pump gas.

 

[jasjamz]

6.5:1 compression ratio shh....dont tell him

 

[Crazi]

LOL at the compression ratio! I posted the question because I feel like its not possible as well.

Dave, with WOT wideband tracking on, does the UT high load areas also supply fuel? I have the wideband lean limit at 10%

 

[jasjamz]

Are you still driving the car? How long are you staying WOT? Any youtube vids? Not that I dont believe you, just maybe we will see something.

 

[Crazi]

Went out and took a tuner pro log just to show you guys what I am seeing. Its long but show two somewhat decent pulls and has the drive to my little testing strip. Hard to stay in it too long without attracting too much attention tho...

I still need to pick up a timing light to verify the balancer is correct. Any other ideas?? Dug out my chip instructions and it has Extender Pro written in bold letters. DUH! Anyway the chip numbers are: PW0X7B0FA. I haven't changed any defaults in the chip so the timing is as it came from FTspeed.

 

[Crazi]

Another part of the puzzle... What happens to timing/ECM when the trans plug is unplugged? Keep seeing that the timing should be lower in 3rd/4th but i no longer have 3rd or 4th gear switches. Just the TCC lockup switch for fourth.

Could this be why my cruise control no longer works??

PS
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

 

[jasjamz]

I am not sure on Extender chips but some operate off of the vehicle speed.

 

[TurboDave]

Another part of the puzzle... What happens to timing/ECM when the trans plug is unplugged? Keep seeing that the timing should be lower in 3rd/4th but i no longer have 3rd or 4th gear switches. Just the TCC lockup switch for fourth.

Could this be why my cruise control no longer works??

PS
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Yes, that's why your cruise isn't working, and the Extender chips need the 3rd/4th gear operating to do the lower timing in 3 and 4

With the Pro installed you really really should get the 3rd/4th gear switch hooked up!! It can be used to reduce timing going into 3rd gear, AND to reduce boost when hitting 3rd/4th.

 

[TurboDave]

LOL at the compression ratio! I posted the question because I feel like its not possible as well.

Dave, with WOT wideband tracking on, does the UT high load areas also supply fuel? I have the wideband lean limit at 10%

Yes, the user tune high also modifies fuel delivery. Lean limit at 10% only means that 10% is the max amount that can be pulled at any time.

You should use the user tune tables to get your Wideband reading fairly close BEFORE you turn the wideband tracking on. That way it won't be hitting its limits trying to make the AFR correct.

 

[Crazi]

Yes, that's why your cruise isn't working, and the Extender chips need the 3rd/4th gear operating to do the lower timing in 3 and 4

With the Pro installed you really really should get the 3rd/4th gear switch hooked up!! It can be used to reduce timing going into 3rd gear, AND to reduce boost when hitting 3rd/4th.

With the stage 3 trans, there are no third and fourth gear pressure switches. Only the TCC lockup which I put a switch on to control lockup. I did a bunch of searches and found that the signal to the ECM is a ground is that correct? So then I should be able to just wire a ground to the connector and use a switch the same as the lockup. Would that work?

 

[TurboDave]

With the stage 3 trans, there are no third and fourth gear pressure switches. Only the TCC lockup which I put a switch on to control lockup. I did a bunch of searches and found that the signal to the ECM is a ground is that correct? So then I should be able to just wire a ground to the connector and use a switch the same as the lockup. Would that work?

That should work, but who wants to have to flip a switch while drag racing well down the track?

 

[Crazi]

Ok I think I figured out the problem. Installed my new scanmaster and finally got around to monitoring ignition timing while going close to WOT. Timing is locked at 14.8 at anything past 50% or so throttle. Time to troubleshoot the EST/ESC wiring and related parts. Funny thing is, I was getting various MAL codes on the old scanmaster and I figured they were due to the updated chip. One of which was code 42. Going to break out the Volt meter when I get home and start probing wires.

 

[Crazi]

Ok I'm stumped... ran thru this: http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/code_42.htm and everything checked out like it should. Also looked at the chart for the Code 43 and that looked good too. The only thing that throws me off is wondering if there is some different troubleshooting process if you have a translator pro with the PnP harness and a TR6 ignition? I checked the ECM wiring before the PnP connectors as the PnP wires are all the same color and it was hard to tell exactly which is which.

Any ideas??

 

[TurboBob]

if its a scanmaster 2.0, its not compatible with the PWO chip. So you are seeing false codes.

If your timing is low, then the timing control signal from the pro to the ecm is not working right. Its the brown wire in the 10 pin connector, it sends a voltage to the ECM on the air temp sensor input to set the WOT timing.

what is your V out 1 mode set to?

Bob