rear carrier options
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alright, i think i have a more specific question now
what are some 30 spline carriers that we can use on the 8.5 rear?
i see plenty listed, but all of them say pre 1988 (28 splines) or 1989 and later (30 splines)
what is the difference? Can i just buy the 30 spline carrier and axles and install them?
specifically im looking at the auburn 542050 and the auburn 542052, trying to figure it out.
thanks for anyhelp
what are some 30 spline carriers that we can use on the 8.5 rear?
i see plenty listed, but all of them say pre 1988 (28 splines) or 1989 and later (30 splines)
what is the difference? Can i just buy the 30 spline carrier and axles and install them?
specifically im looking at the auburn 542050 and the auburn 542052, trying to figure it out.
thanks for anyhelp
johnnyttype
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2007
for what its worth, ive heard the eaton posi units are stronger than the auburns. not sure if anyone else has heard the same. check out moser engineering page and you can find eaton and auburn units, axles 28 and 30 spline for buicks, and all sorts of other goodies! hth
some links:
Moser Engineering eaton unit
Moser Engineering auburn unit
Moser Engineering axles
some links:
Moser Engineering eaton unit
Moser Engineering auburn unit
Moser Engineering axles
johnnyttype
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2007
im pretty sure that was one of the cons for the auburn, it has to be sent away to be rebuilt. eatons are rebuildable
heres something though, took this from another thread!
"Still using the Stock posi in the TSM car with 28 spline moser axles. 5.90 at 117 with a 1.32 60 foot That's high 9.20 range"
Dusty bradfords car! these stockers are pretty strong!
from this thread:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/243566-fastest-stock-rear.html
heres something though, took this from another thread!
"Still using the Stock posi in the TSM car with 28 spline moser axles. 5.90 at 117 with a 1.32 60 foot That's high 9.20 range"
Dusty bradfords car! these stockers are pretty strong!
from this thread:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/243566-fastest-stock-rear.html
It really is much easier and just about as strong just to replace the stock clutches. I would always recommend using a TA (summit brand is made by TA) or ultimate girdle as those will help to hold the main caps in place.
Parts list:
Clutch pack set
New spring
New Retaining bolt
Rear end girdle
Rear stud kit (optional)
1 bottle GM limited slip additive
2-3 bottles of diff lube - any type will work.
Best thing about rebuilding a stock one is that no one has to setup the rear end at all. It's just a parts replacement.
I would say anyone going faster than 10.80s or 1.50's should probably replace axles - depending on how your splines look, however, I've come across at least a handful of people that have had bent 28 and 30 splined axles from mosers (including myself).
Anything faster than 10.0's - Detroit locker or spool is the only way to go "I think". There's nothing like the positive bite from both tires 100%.
Parts list:
Clutch pack set
New spring
New Retaining bolt
Rear end girdle
Rear stud kit (optional)
1 bottle GM limited slip additive
2-3 bottles of diff lube - any type will work.
Best thing about rebuilding a stock one is that no one has to setup the rear end at all. It's just a parts replacement.
I would say anyone going faster than 10.80s or 1.50's should probably replace axles - depending on how your splines look, however, I've come across at least a handful of people that have had bent 28 and 30 splined axles from mosers (including myself).
Anything faster than 10.0's - Detroit locker or spool is the only way to go "I think". There's nothing like the positive bite from both tires 100%.
thanks for the replys guys.
I'm hoping to hit mid to low tens by next year, I have no idea what my 60' time will be, but if i hit 1.4 i'd be happy.
I didn't know the stock carrier was capable of such things, though i do suppose it is based on how hard you launch.
I'd go spool now, but I have the "i still want to drive it on the street" problem
last car i had with a spool i absolutly hated, especially since it was a daily driver (not a mistake i will soon forget or repete)
anyone have moser 28 spline axles and a stock carrier?
Looking for the failure point ( torque, 60' time, how it was launched) of either the axles or the carrier, which ever came first
what about c-clip eliminators, I've heard from a few guys that these can cause leaking?
thanks for all the info so far guys
I'm hoping to hit mid to low tens by next year, I have no idea what my 60' time will be, but if i hit 1.4 i'd be happy.
I didn't know the stock carrier was capable of such things, though i do suppose it is based on how hard you launch.
I'd go spool now, but I have the "i still want to drive it on the street" problem
last car i had with a spool i absolutly hated, especially since it was a daily driver (not a mistake i will soon forget or repete)
anyone have moser 28 spline axles and a stock carrier?
Looking for the failure point ( torque, 60' time, how it was launched) of either the axles or the carrier, which ever came first
what about c-clip eliminators, I've heard from a few guys that these can cause leaking?
thanks for all the info so far guys
turbofish38
Le Pétomane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
I have a 30 spline Auburn 3 series carrier for sale if you are interested. PM for a price and pics.
I dont know how you can say the stock Eaton is stronger than the Auburn. I mean really if you have to rebuild the Eaton than how is that stronger? The Auburn looks like it has way more clamping power. Just look at those 5 springs compared to that S-shaped POS in the stock Eaton. The cone clutches look like they have more surface area too. Both are good for the 10's in our cars anyway. Plus the Auburn doesn't need any special lube with friction modifiers like the Eaton.
I dont know how you can say the stock Eaton is stronger than the Auburn. I mean really if you have to rebuild the Eaton than how is that stronger? The Auburn looks like it has way more clamping power. Just look at those 5 springs compared to that S-shaped POS in the stock Eaton. The cone clutches look like they have more surface area too. Both are good for the 10's in our cars anyway. Plus the Auburn doesn't need any special lube with friction modifiers like the Eaton.
johnnyttype
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2007
if this is directed towards what i said in my first post i wasnt talking about the stock unit, i was talking about the aftermarket unit eaton makes as being stronger, and thats only what ive heard from people and reading!
turbofish38
Le Pétomane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
Nope. I know there is quite a difference in the aftermarket units. I hope everybody understood the word STOCK in my post.:smile:
mikestertwo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2006
The springs have nothing to do with the strength of the unit. The springs are there to preload the clutches. Cone type units need more preload to make the clutches "grab" that's why the Auburn units have so many springs. The "S" shaped spring in the Eaton units is all that is needed to preload the disk type clutches. The actual pressure that clamps the clutches comes from the side gears when under load. The axle with the most load compresses it's clutch with more force than the axle with the least load thereby putting more torque to that axle. The Eaton units have more surface area because they have multiple clutches which is one reason they need less preload.
I'm still confused as to which unit to buy, or to rebuild the stock unit
I would like to upgrade to something with more splines, but if can get into the 10's with the stock carrier and aftermarket axles- its kind of silly not to
I can always switch it out again at a later date.
I've never rebuilt a carrier before, and the cost of the clutches has definitely piqued my interest in doing so- anyone point me in the right direction ?
I would like to upgrade to something with more splines, but if can get into the 10's with the stock carrier and aftermarket axles- its kind of silly not to
I can always switch it out again at a later date.
I've never rebuilt a carrier before, and the cost of the clutches has definitely piqued my interest in doing so- anyone point me in the right direction ?
Just a Six??
OK! Who Farted??
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
If he wants to use the Stock setup, who would have the best axles to upgrade with that bolt right in? Moser?
Quicksilver
Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
If your are planning on using a trans break, I'd recommend rebuilding with aftermarket axels with the highest count of splines available for the spool or locker you choose.
If you are not using a trans break, but using slicks to launch as hard as possible off the foot break, I recommend Moser axles with 30 spline because the shafts are the same diameter from the wheel flange to the spline. My experience with the Auburn carrier was all bad, so I went with an Eaton and am very pleased so far. The Auburn cone split in half and the completely destroyed the carrier and bearings before I discovered the problem.The Auburn was OK with street tires but broke when I switched to slicks. I was not using the Auburn PRO.
If you are staying with street tires or drag radials, install new clutches in your stock carrier and have fun.
Cclip eliminaters are required by NHRA if running 10's.
I got my set up from "gears are us", very satisfied.
If you are not using a trans break, but using slicks to launch as hard as possible off the foot break, I recommend Moser axles with 30 spline because the shafts are the same diameter from the wheel flange to the spline. My experience with the Auburn carrier was all bad, so I went with an Eaton and am very pleased so far. The Auburn cone split in half and the completely destroyed the carrier and bearings before I discovered the problem.The Auburn was OK with street tires but broke when I switched to slicks. I was not using the Auburn PRO.
If you are staying with street tires or drag radials, install new clutches in your stock carrier and have fun.
Cclip eliminaters are required by NHRA if running 10's.
I got my set up from "gears are us", very satisfied.
I just went through the same dilema,do i build the stocker with leak prone c-clips or go with a 9''?,Well i sold the stock gn rear complete drum to drum for a grand,bought a brand new fully braced chris alston chassis engineering fab 9 (stock lenght)that fits in perfect!!!Between the moser nod. center w/detroit locker(complete..bolt-in),moser 35 spline axles,gears and rear wilwood discs,i got about 3 grand wrapped up in it,but really only cost me 2 grand out of pocket..I figured to build the 8.5...between new axles,leaky c-clip eliminators,gears,billet cover, and a strong posi unit,i would be close to the 2 grand i spent!!!!I have a turbo 400 with transbrake and drag radials 275/60/15..with a 15x 8 w/3.5'' backspacing,nothing rubs and plenty of clearance inside and out...Now i dont have to worry about the rear any more,basicly bullet proof now!!!
see, thats what originally wanted to do, some slight differences, but very very close
I opted for the gn rear because I got one for a good price, and I figured it would be a nice easy bolt in install.
I'm not building a rocket ship (yet)
heck, I havent even started on my motor.
But when it gets done I'd like to not have to worry about a grenade going off
in my rear. I've already had that with a 7.5, it was not fun.
Theres just too many options, my head is spinning, everyone I ask has a completely different opinion and a very good list of reasons supporting their opinion-
I think im going to opt for an auburn unit for now, then replace it later on. I dont mind having it shipped away to be rebuilt, Hell I've never rebuilt a carrier before and murphys law states "The first time I do something, I do it wrong."
I opted for the gn rear because I got one for a good price, and I figured it would be a nice easy bolt in install.
I'm not building a rocket ship (yet)
heck, I havent even started on my motor.
But when it gets done I'd like to not have to worry about a grenade going off
in my rear. I've already had that with a 7.5, it was not fun.
Theres just too many options, my head is spinning, everyone I ask has a completely different opinion and a very good list of reasons supporting their opinion-
I think im going to opt for an auburn unit for now, then replace it later on. I dont mind having it shipped away to be rebuilt, Hell I've never rebuilt a carrier before and murphys law states "The first time I do something, I do it wrong."
Although I have heard of plenty of people going much faster on stock axles, I have only been running 7.40's in the 660' with 1.58 60' times and went boom a couple of Saturday's ago. I am not even using a trans-brake yet! Of course the vehicle's weight has a lot to do with it as well. A significantly lightened Buick at the same power level would not be as harsh on the drivetrain.
With this in mind, I have a client with 40 years experience in building and fabricating racing equipment who highly encouraged me to rebuild the rear with 30 spline Moser's and a new Auburn unit. His opinion was that just replacing the stock axles with Moser 28's would not be enough for the long run. This is indifferent to the fact that I do not plan on going faster than 11.50's with this vehicle. It was his opinion that moving up to this level would provide a little extra insurance against catastrophic rearend breakage. He did, however, not recommend using c-clip eliminators and felt that they would be more problematic than helpful for my specific application.
I do know that weither you stay with 28's or go up to 30's you will need to buy new lugs since the studs are larger.
Any additional imput from individuals with experience using the Auburn unit would be helpful. Searching the forums so far has not produced anything definitive for me yet. Thanks!
With this in mind, I have a client with 40 years experience in building and fabricating racing equipment who highly encouraged me to rebuild the rear with 30 spline Moser's and a new Auburn unit. His opinion was that just replacing the stock axles with Moser 28's would not be enough for the long run. This is indifferent to the fact that I do not plan on going faster than 11.50's with this vehicle. It was his opinion that moving up to this level would provide a little extra insurance against catastrophic rearend breakage. He did, however, not recommend using c-clip eliminators and felt that they would be more problematic than helpful for my specific application.
I do know that weither you stay with 28's or go up to 30's you will need to buy new lugs since the studs are larger.
Any additional imput from individuals with experience using the Auburn unit would be helpful. Searching the forums so far has not produced anything definitive for me yet. Thanks!
Auburn and 30 spline axles
Been running an auburn posi and 30 spline Henry axles for a couple years. The biggest advantage is cost. You can get a used 30 spline auburn posi from a pick and pull junk yard for less than 100 bucks. I'm not sure how much the Henry axles cost new. Mine were used from someone on the board.
I've put quite a few low 1.6 upper 1.5 60s without issue. This is with a 3,700 pound car and 10# boost foot brake launches with 9" X 28" slicks.
I figure if the clutches should fail I could just pick up another carrier for less than the cost of clutches for an eaton or stock unit.
If you go this route, look for a posi out of a wagon (roadmaster or caprice). I believe the mid 1990s to late 1990s model years (count the splines to make sure) but there is a noticeable difference in diameter between the 28 and 30 spline axles.
Yea I'm cheap
Don
Been running an auburn posi and 30 spline Henry axles for a couple years. The biggest advantage is cost. You can get a used 30 spline auburn posi from a pick and pull junk yard for less than 100 bucks. I'm not sure how much the Henry axles cost new. Mine were used from someone on the board.
I've put quite a few low 1.6 upper 1.5 60s without issue. This is with a 3,700 pound car and 10# boost foot brake launches with 9" X 28" slicks.
I figure if the clutches should fail I could just pick up another carrier for less than the cost of clutches for an eaton or stock unit.
If you go this route, look for a posi out of a wagon (roadmaster or caprice). I believe the mid 1990s to late 1990s model years (count the splines to make sure) but there is a noticeable difference in diameter between the 28 and 30 spline axles.
Yea I'm cheap
Don
I would have to agree with qwksht. Either stay with a stock posi setup, or ditch the 10 bolt. I realize they can hold up amazingly well but after I bought a 30 spline Eaton, axles, cover, c clip kit, then had to resolve the leaks, (had a machinist make seal holders that fit in the axle tubes to stop oil from reaching the bearings), I should have sold the unmodded stocker and moved on
Jim
Jim
