Roller cam & Rocker question ....HELP!!!

[straycat990]

I need help ... I am wanting to run a mech roller cam on the street and in a non-stage motor. I have talked with crane cams extensively on this. the cam they have come up with for me has the specs of .326 cam lift on the intake, .314 cam lift on the exhaust, duration @ .050 is 218 degrees on the intake and 210 on the exhaust. intake center line of 107. I will be using crane's solid roller lifters. Now for where I am having my major concern. the lifters were designed for a stage II block ..not for a 109 block. Crane has assured me that they will work. what I need to know is will these lifters (being that they are for a stage II) will they expose the lifters oil holes. If i am going to need to have the lifter bores bushed to effectively increase the height of the bores .. I would rather do it while its in the machine shop being bored .. not after I have started the assembly process. Also I am going to have to run roller rockers. Who makes the most dependable set? I have seen several companies that make them ... harland sharps, TD, and TA performance. Which is the best to be used on a street/ weekend racer?

Thanks
David Morgan

 

[Otto J]

curios why you would go solid?hydaulic rollers are way better for street car and these motors are not very high rpm motors where you would find the most benifits of a solid.
but to answer yourquestions, I am not sure
Otto

 

[Nick Micale]

I talked with a Crane rep in person about using solid rollers in a stock block. He said they it could be done. For months I have yet to see their roller lifter?

If it is a Stage II roller, it will not work. The stock block has a large machined "hole" cut from the oil galley that is massive compared to the small hole drilled into the Stage II block oil galley.

I installed a solid roller in a stock block to find this out the hard way. It was a race-only motor with a high lift and awesome profile designed to run up to 7000 rpm. When that did not work due to bleeding oil pressure through the bores, used the same grind in a hydraulic roller. Got close enough to 7000 rpm for me!

No reason you could not use hydraulic rollers on the grind you have coming? Best check this with company doing the cam.

As far a roller rockers, TA Perf supplies them with a stud kit instead of bolts which I find MUCH easier and better to use. The roller rockers are made for them by T&D.

 

[straycat990]

Otto its just a personal preference of mine. I have alway used solid lifter cams in my other engines.

Nick, I already have the lifters .. picked up a set and some spares from a local bush series racer. Didn't have to give much for them either The cam is for a production 3.8 (not a stage II). Crane told me the only thing that I would have to do different would be that I would have to use an odd fire timing set and have some way of holding the cam in place. which should not be to big of a problem. I plan on using the same set up that was used in the stage two bush series motors. It my understanding that will work just fine in a production 3.8 or 4.1 for that matter.

David

 

[KendallF]

David,

Look at Nick's reply above. If you've got the regular solid rollers (what they call an "unshielded foot" lifter), they will uncover the oil galley.

If you want to check, stick a cam in, measure the lifter height and the distance down the lifter where the body ends. Spin the cam over, record lifter height above the bore and subtract to figure out how high the bottom of the lifter body goes. Now measure down to the oil galley hole. You will almost certainly find that the body rides higher than the oil galley hole...massive leak time.

Crane supposedly makes a "shielded foot" solid roller lifter that essentially has a lower body section that looks more like a hydraulic roller so the oil galley will stay covered.

 

[straycat990]

Kendall,

thats my problem .. I don't have access to an even fire roller cam. I have a buddy that has been trying to do the same thing I am except he is doing a NA motor. He has experienced the problem that nick stated. the difference is that he is running close to .120 more lift than what I am wanting to use. ( I am hoping that the lesser amount of lift will not expose the oil holes) I just don't want to spend the money to have a cam ground and then not be able to make it work. But it is looking like If i am to make this work ..I am going to have to take the gamble and buy the cam.

 

[Nick Micale]

Any lift will expose the oil galley unless you have a VERY small base circle cam.

The Crane lifter are the only solid rollers that "supposedly" work in a stock block, but never been able to get my hands on one to verify?

 

[straycat990]

Nick, I have the crane lifters crane part number 81520-12. So I guess I will order the cam and pray that my plan works out. if it doesn't I can always buy a set of hyd roller lifters or get the lifter bores bushed.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by straycat990
Nick, I have the crane lifters crane part number 81520-12. ......

Please let me know if they work, thanks.

 

[straycat990]

sure thing Nick. It will be a couple of weeks before I will know .. Crane told me it would take 8 to 10 working days to grind and ship the cam. Might be longer too considering the holidays are just about upon us.

David

either this is going to work or I am gonna have a $350 conversation piece

 

[straycat990]

Okay Nick ... here's some updated info on this

After several more conversations with crane tech people, I finally got to talk to some one in their R&D dept. I was told that the crane solid roller lifters part # 81520-12 will NOT work , but crane roller lifter part # 62518-12 will work in a stock block. Crane's price for these lifters is $324. Crane suggested that I buy them from summit or jegs .. price would be less. I checked summit racing ... $310.69 for the lifters. Now for the bad news. Summit sales person informed me that if I ordered now the earliest I could expect the lifters would be sometime in Feb but that it could be as late as May. Which sucks big time. I was hoping to have this engine together by then.

So does any one have any suggestions .. looks like I am going to have to run a hyd roller cam. Who else out there makes hyd roller cam kits .. I have looked at ATR's and while it is a very nice kit .. I would like to do some comparison shopping.

David Morgan

 

[KendallF]

PT&E sells roller setups..and if you call and talk to Dan about your setup, he can probably get Comp to grind about anything you want (they usually use Comp for a supplier). Price is comparable to ATR.

www.precisionte.com

 

[turbodave231]

I'm building a stage 1 enginewith stage 2 heads, which has the same production oiling for the lifters as the production block. I seriously considered bushing the lifter bores but "Ohio George" talked me out of it. He said the chances of f-cking up a good block were high.

He advised me to do just what you are going to do: Go with a hydraulic roller cam. Several suppliers can grind you a cam, but they may not have cores (billets).

Tim Cole at Comp is a great guy to talk to. Erson has alot of experience (they do alot of cams for Ken Dutwieller). Ohio George swears by Crane. The problem you will run into is finding someone with a core. When I was shopping for a cam, I could not find anybody with a core for a stage 2 headed motor. I bought a load of stage parts from an estate and it had an unground core in the package. It cost me $100 to get it ground.

I also got a brand new crane solid roller cam for a production block. But no lifters. I'll bet it could be reground as a hydraulic cam for the same $100 I mentioned above. The specs were 222/222 and somewhere around .500 lift. Email me if you have any interest in that idea.

Dave

 

[straycat990]

sent ya an email Dave.

also does anyone know if ruggles (spelling) is still in business? I understand that they did alot with roller cams. If they are do they have a web page?

thanks,

David Morgan

 

[turbodave231]

Nope, Jim Ruggles is out of the V6 thing and sold all his stuff.

DR