SES Light same circuit as wash fluid light?? Missing SES bulb

[Ed Salsbury]

Hi Guys, I bought used 87 turbo regal base, I'm still trying to work out hesitation when out driving and first stepping on gas, then it accelerates fine, always starts/drives, but my "WASH FLUID"dash light IS always on AND ALWAYS flickering, all fuses good, no SES light. Now, after reading many helpful posts here on the forum (thank you), I went out and bought a Scanmaster, then attempted to use SM, upon aldl term. E, IGN3 fuse box, and good ground hookups, scanmaster lights up for a couple seconds only then goes out, Mike at Full Throttle says unit is working, but not receiving, probably bad ecm. Because no SES lite, I set out to check SES bulb, I ground out aldl term D, still no SES light, I detach ecm connector, and apply grounded test light to A5 and A6, A5 illuminates test light bright, but A6 faint light, so I partially disassemble dash and finally fing that that there is no SES bulb at all and I cannot see any such bulb behind pod, of course WASH FLUID bulb is there above where SES should be and attached properly, I redo a check of ALDL term D jumper to good ground, still no sign of SES bulb illuminating anywhere behind dash pod, BUT if I press hard on jumper into term D of ALDL, or fiddle with ALDL wires, WASH FLUID light illuminates brightly and stays solid.??????

So. I'm beginning to wonder if the guy (s) before me for whatever reason??got rid of the SES bulb/wiring and that the WASH Fluid bulb/lite is somehow connected to everything. I think WASH FLUID lite and SES lite are on same circuit???? I'm stumped and scratching my butt on this, so much time on my back under this dash, starting to get pissed......
Now, I can live without a SES light and a flickering WASH FLUID dash light, so maybe this is all moot, and I'm still thinking ECM is in need of replacement. if so, I'll replace it, hook up the scanmaster, and attempt to correct the original hesitation problem that started me down this long path, and forget about the missing SES bulb.

I'm a rookie for the most part and defer to you guys who know far more than I, if you could offer me some guidance and ideas here. Thanks again very much!

Ed
Rockland MA

 

[pacecarta]

most likely someone had the dash cluster out and mistakenly twisted the ses lamp (which is not just a bulb but a seperatey wired socket ) into the open unused wiper fluid spot in the dash cluster

if you remove the cluster you can put the ses lamp back into the Check engine hole in the cluster

 

[Ed Salsbury]

Thx pacecarta, that definitely make sense, I'll try that and then move on to the Ecm checks/replacement and then Scanmaster

Thx
Ed

 

[GNRick]

Just FYI, the ses light must work in order for your alternator to charge the battery. Unless you have a Casper's field fix. As for your hesitation, does your car still have the original chip in the ecm?

 

[Ed Salsbury]

Just FYI, the ses light must work in order for your alternator to charge the battery. Unless you have a Casper's field fix. As for your hesitation, does your car still have the original chip in the ecm?

Thanks Rick,
I dont know if its the original or not. How can I tell? ALso found out that the previous owner apparently had swapped the SES BULB to the WASH FLUID socket, so I swapped the "wash fluid" bulb back to the SES socket where it had been moved from. Its still on always flickering, as it was on the wash fluid. Boost gage appears to work fine but RPM gage is full bars across always, doesnt change.

As far as diagnosis, per the forum suggestions, all fuses good, battery power lead to ECM looks good, with my test light in ECM connector, A5 illuminates test light bright, BUT A6 lights it BUT VERY faintly, Whats the difference in these two pins? Both SES? ALSO when I check the ALDL term D with a jumper clamped to a good ground, IF I PRESS IN HARD on jumper clamp into term D of ALDL, or fiddle with ALDL wires, SES light goes from flickering to solid bright light and stays solid until I release pressure, then back to flickering?????? All this has to be related Im thinking.....ALDL Ground??? , or ECM????

SES Flickering to bright solid when press jumper hard into ALDL D, Faint test light when ECM connector A6 is probed, but Bright A5?? Scanmaster still shows no signal from ECM. Before I order an ECM, does anyone have an extra ECM I could borrow just to test if mine is bad? I'm in Rockland MA 02339, 15 miles south of Boston.
Any help greatly is appreciated! Thanks again
Ed
Rockland MA

 

[TurboBob]

pressing on the aldl pin is not likely related to the problem,

the charging is dependent on the volts light, not the SES.

take the ECM out and inspect the main connector for corrosion. open the chip door, remove the main chip and retension the socket pins. the flickering ses is a symptom of the ECM not being able to read the chip.

Bob

 

[TurboBob]

as far as the hesitation, if the ses is flickering the ECM is running in true limp-home mode. Once you get the ECM happy things will start to work more normally.

B

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

ECM pin A5 is the SES light driver. It also goes to pin D on the ALDL. So grounding ALDL pin D will cause the SES to be on solid. This is OK.

ECM pin A6 is the ignition feed to the ECM. It tells the ECM when to power up and when to power down. Actual power is pulled from the battery feed to the ECM (fusible link at battery).

As for the flickering SES, the ECM is in limp mode. Most common cause is that the PROM isn't properly seated into the socket. This is the larger of the two chips under the ECM's small cover.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[Ed Salsbury]

Thank you guys (TurboBob GNRick and RmvBfrflght) very much, I'll get to work checking those areas out. Finally, there's hope to fixing this thing before Spring!! Will let you know.
Again, many thanks
Ed

 

[Ed Salsbury]

BINGO, spot on Bob/RmvBfrFlght! , Thank you!
I re-seated prom chip and calpak and SES is now solid. Finally. Started car, high idle, and will now hook up the scanmaster to see if I can make this thing right. I noticed chip is a Pit Bully and the car came with the blow out valve on it. If thjats a problem I would be inclined to get a stock chip and just replace it.
Ed