Shurflo 2687 no longer available? - and other methanol injection questions

[Saaboteur]

So the local Sy-Ty EFI guru, who helped me tune my SDS stand alone equipped Saab, has got me hooked on the idea of methanol injection.

I want to put together my own system. I've visted Steve Monroe's site, and have gleaned much info from there. Lots of the other Saab guys are quite into the Aquamist kits, but I'm too poor to go that route, and I'm not sure if it can do methanol anyway.

Whatever, I'm in the process of gathering the components. I've surfed the Shurflo site, and I can't seem to locate the 2687 pump. Is this still available, or is this an old part number that has been superceded? Any pointers as to the current pump to use?

I've also already purchased an Aquamist nozzle, 0.7mm, from George's Imports. Brad there is a Saab guy and supplies lots of the Saab community with Aquamist. No problems using this nozzle with methanol? Should I be going bigger or small? Keep in mind, I'm on a 2.0L 4-cylinder that is aiming for ~300hp, not something crazy for the quarter mile.

Also, I cannot seem to locate the NOS pressure switch. Any ideas on alternatives?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[19gn87]

Looks like it's listed HERE

HTH

 

[AirBuick]

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe Aquamist nozzles are methanol compatible.

 

[19gn87]

BTW, you can get tried and proven components HERE

HTH

 

[Razor]

Running water is like eating frogs.. it tastes like chicken
Running alcohol on a hobbs pressure switch system is like eating chicken..

Running alcohol injection on a mulitstage or progressive system.. is like eating Filet

Depends what you appetite is. See the aquamist nozzles have a very small orfice, needed to atomize water. to get proper atomization and volume will require pressure, and nozzles.

On the alcohol setups I run one single nozzle that given the proper pressure will support an easy 600-700 RWHP motor. On the aquamist nozzles, the systems i've seen typically will run 4-6 nozzles just to be able and deliver the needed volume. Then you need to pump them with 200+PSI to make it work on any healthy motor. Lastly the Aquamist nozzles use a single hose barb, and plastic lines. Personally I wouldnt run a flammable liquid unless I have threaded fittings.

FWIW, the 2687 is a northern part number. Not a shureflow part number. The shureflow series is an 8000-543-236..

You guys running water need to stop eating frogs and get with the Steak program. Yet to see anyone pull alcohol out of theyre tank and replace it with water.. well maybe some 150 RWHP motor. Unless you run a pump not compatible with alcohol.. then theres no choice..ya got to stop eating the fake chicken

 

[Saaboteur]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll cross ref the Shurflo p/n with the local dealer. Didn't realize the 2687 was the Northern p/n, so thanks for pointing that out.

FWIW, when I say 'water', I actually mean 'windshield washer fluid', as that is what most of the Saab guys run. I guess that's mostly alcohol, but so far, don't know of anyone running straight methanol. I used to run it in my 4-stroke Briggs go-kart. Always loved the smell of those exhausts...

I'll start with the chicken meal for now, will try the steak later. Actually, for me the prime rib of beef is in the corners, maybe you guys should try that! But really, with my relatively modest power goals, do I really need a multistage/progressive setup?

So...basically I need a different nozzle than the Aquamist. I guess I'll just follow Steve Monroe's pages to the T for now. But just to confirm, I can run pure methanol on this setup?

 

[Razor]

See what you dont realize is a set pressure switch system is more suited for a WOT application. As soon as the system fires the nozzle.. its going to skew the AFR. But this is a whole other topic. You can research.

Carving corners involves loading the engine differently..which means the boost guage will be all over the place constantly.

Yes the pump mentioned has no issues on running methanol. I would suggest using a different style nozzle that would "mist" vs the NOS nozzle thats designed more for a gas and "spurts" liquid.

Tho some here will argue, run teflon lined braided hoses. They make it one less area for an accident to happen.

As far as winshield washer fluid, dont get the one with soap.. it wont clean the exhuast

Man i'm cheap, but can get methanol for 2.50 a gallon. If I wanted to cut it down. i'd do it myself and not worry about any added additives that may not be on the label. But the only water my alcohol gets is from sitting in a container. Tho 50/50 makes it non-flammable.

HTH

 

[Red Regal T]

Funny how lots of people will run windshield washer fluid, even though they have no idea what's in the bottle............Blue water?

Spare me.......I know.........YOU know what's in the bottle.

 

[Saaboteur]

Do you have a suggestion on a particular 'misting' nozzle?

 

[2 SLOW]

Saaboteur,

I have gone 10's several times on pump gas and methanol. In 10+ years I always have and always will only use straight 100% methanol. I have read about other people who have used windshield washer soap, and all I can say is ARE YOU NUTS? Maybe you just want to see if you can get some bubbles out the tail pipe. Why not use mouthwash and mix in a little cough syrup so your motor won't cough at WOT. They both have alcohol in them.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by Saaboteur
Do you have a suggestion on a particular 'misting' nozzle?

Nozzle

HTH..

How bout that wintergreen rubbing alcohol

hehe

 

[Saaboteur]

So, I've done some more research. I can get the '2687' pump locally, which is a plus for me (I'm in Canada, and shipping stuff across the border can be a pain, what with stupid brokerage fees and taxes).

Now wondering about nozzle placement. I'll buy the one from you, Mr. Razor, because I don't want to spend the time poking around for it myself, and I know it's proven.

In my discussions with Brad at KCSaab, he recommended placing the nozzle on the outside of the curve in my IC pipe, pointing inwards. Sound okay? Or is there a different suggestion?

The pipe:

http://members.shaw.ca/saaboteur/spg/fmic/fmic-d-upper.jpg

Secondly, I'm presuming that the nozzle will just screw in with threads (what, 1/8" NPT?). I'm having my engine builder do some welding for me, so I want to get this all done at once. The IC pipe itself is probably too thin to tap. How thick of a piece of aluminum should I have welded on to enable me to safely tap and thread the nozzle? Or am I completely off base and the nozzle needs to be held in place with a locking nut?

Finally, regarding the suggested float sending unit. Does this piece have to swing up in a 90* arc, or does it have a vertical travel? The reason for asking is that I have a possible reservoir, but it is very long and narrow, 2" x 15". If the sending unit has a swinging arm, it obviously won't work.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Razor]

well I'd put the nozzle between the blow off and TB. But not pointing torwards the blow off valve. This would be bad... In other words looking at the pix, in the bend between the BO and TB.


The nozzle doesnt require any welding, just a 3/8 diameter hole. It is held in place using a 90 degree elbow and some sealing washers. really easy..

As far as your float deal, send me a pix of the tank, i'll see what I can come up with. I do all my floats from the top of the tanks, reason so they dont leak.

PS.. No need for Mr. we're all friends here

 

[Saaboteur]

Hey, thanks for the tips.

I really don't think the current reservoir I have will fit the bill. It's just too narrow, I think, to be practical to mount anywhere in my engine bay. I may ask my engine builder to fabricate one up for me out of some large diameter aluminum tubing. How big of a hole will the GM sender require? And does it move only vertically or is there a swinging arm in the assembly?

 

[Razor]

No aluminum. It has to be stainless.

Remember brass and stainless are compatible metals. Aluminum unless anodized, will corrode. hence why I use plastic containers

I have senders of different lengths..

 

[DMan]

Originally posted by Razor
Then you need to pump them with 200+PSI to make it work on any healthy motor..

This is incorrect. 90-100 psi works plenty fine with Aquamist nozzles.

Lastly the Aquamist nozzles use a single hose barb, and plastic lines. Personally I wouldnt run a flammable liquid unless I have threaded fittings..

Aquamist nozzles are methanol compatible.

And in the many years of use and abuse by me and others, the plastic lines and hose barb have never failed.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by DMan
This is incorrect. 90-100 psi works plenty fine with Aquamist nozzles.



Aquamist nozzles are methanol compatible.

And in the many years of use and abuse by me and others, the plastic lines and hose barb have never failed.

Ahem... so one M1 nozzle at 90-100 PSI will support a 450 HP motor?

Nozzle

Dunno bout you, but to me.. using water is no problem, using an extremely flammable liquid like methanol on non fitted fittings, like these, I would not recommend doing so. Let alone unprotected lines. Spraying water you pop a hose.. no biggie. Spray methanol you pop a hose, you'll be roasting.

Never said the nozzles were not methanol compatible, only stated theyre design leaves question as to safety. Glad you havent had issue.

 

[DMan]

Originally posted by Razor
Ahem... so one M1 nozzle at 90-100 PSI will support a 450 HP motor?

Who said anything about M1 nozzles and 450hp? I'm just replying to the comment that "you need 200 psi to make an Aquamist nozzle work well on a healthy motor", which is an incorrect statement. What did you mean exactly?

Dunno bout you, but to me.. using water is no problem, using an extremely flammable liquid like methanol on non fitted fittings, like these, I would not recommend doing so.

Yeah, I can see how people can think that. I guess after using them for a few years without any issues I've become comfortable with them as have other people. Just thought I would make a point from experience to counter an opinion. Have a lot of people been complaining about Aquamist reliability?

Never said the nozzles were not methanol compatible

you're right. Someone else did. I was just lumping my comments together into one reply.

 

[Lee Thompson]

nozzle

Not sure about all nozzles available but I do know some mount on the inside whereas Aquamist nozzles (when mounted correctly) do not restrict the air flow as they mount from the out side. Also the barbed ends will hold more than the 100 psi my pump puts out. 45 psi difference is mininum for best atomization.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by DMan
Who said anything about M1 nozzles and 450hp? I'm just replying to the comment that "you need 200 psi to make an Aquamist nozzle work well on a healthy motor", which is an incorrect statement. What did you mean exactly?

Yeah, I can see how people can think that. I guess after using them for a few years without any issues I've become comfortable with them as have other people. Just thought I would make a point from experience to counter an opinion. Have a lot of people been complaining about Aquamist reliability?

My point is that it requires multiple nozzles for the amount of alcohol needed to sustain any power. The use of multiple nozzles poses more locations for a leak to occur. And tho you may not had any issue, and many guys have run them for years, there is no performance benefit to using the Aquamist nozzle over the Hago nozzle when spraying alcohol. Theyre more expensive, the largest one doesnt flow but a third, and a push on barb fitting. Three strikes.

Listen if we where talking spraying water, then hands down the atomization of the Aquamist is the probably the best there is. And with water, it has to atomize. This there is no disagreement. With alcohol, since it flashes at a much lower temp than water.. its not critical. Only when outside temps get under 50 degrees and the air coming into the motor isnt over 50 degrees. Then is when atomization is needed. And the Hago mist nozzle does this fine, for probably a tenth the cost. Plus allows threaded fittings.

Hey i'm open to new ideas, that are backed by documented performance benefits to the rear wheels. Just becuase its more expensive doesnt make it better. Actually I cant see any benefit to using a Aquamist nozzle spraying alcohol over the inexpensive Hago.

But if you like a busy looking engine compartment, thats ok. Your call. So our arguement boils down to $$$ and percieved safety. Becuase in the RWHP dept, there is zero benefit.

Peace

Lee, guys have mounted Hago's from the outside as well. By milling the heads down and then threading them from the outside. Its a lot of work for nill. They dont pose and airflow obstruction that would cuase a performance issue. Hell the outlet of the turbo is 2 inch(typicall GN), the up-pipe diameter is at least 2.5.. the bottle neck isnt in the up-pipe, and a little head sticking in the airflow poses no performance issue. The barb ends may hold 100 PSI, just that its a single barb.. just my humble .02

I let 2 Slow talk bout atomization on a 10 second car running alky. Its so simple, yet turns into "rocket science"