So many different Turbos out there, How can one decide?

[Rob Scala]

So many different people running so many different turbos from all different companies, How can someone be sure what they want to buy??? Not to mention that everyone's ET's are all over the place with smaller turbos running faster ET's and MPH than a bigger ones and so-called bigger and better turbos running just a hair better if even better at all than someones TE44.
Bottom line is how does someone make a decision about a Turbo
Purchase with so much Inconsistency!!!

 

[Two Lane]

Best Advice I Can Give You On Turbos

Call Jack...

www.cottonsperformance.com

HTH

 

[salvageV6]

Many people buy used when a good deal shows up, even if it mismatches their combo.

You choose a turbo based on what you want out of the car on the street or the track.

Many of these cars rarely see the streets, unfortunately.

What do you use your car for? What gas you gonna be running?

What are your horsepower and ET goals?

Going for tranny work and a higher stall converter?

If not your choices are more limited and will be easier for ya.

 

[UNGN]

It's not the turbo, its what you do with it.

Many people buy into the myth that bolting on a big turbo will "allow the car to make more power at low boost".

They are disappointed when their TE5X at 16 psi ET's slower than some people with a stock turbo at the same boost level.

A larger turbo does two things: 1.) it allows higher boost to be made more efficiently and 2) it moves the torque curve higher up the RPM scale. Peak torque or average torque may actually decrease, but higher up the RPM scale the torque is shifted, the more Peak HP the car will make.

The idea is use a turbo that fits your car's combination. The TE44 and TA49 will both spool at 2400 RPM so no converter is required. They are also very efficient with a stock motor up to 23 psi. It's pretty easy to see why many relatively stock cars are fast (mid 11's) using these turbos.

Using a larger turbo (like a TE54 for example) in a relatively stock car you run into a few problems. The turbo won't spool until 3000+ rpm so you need a converter to achieve 60fts anywhere near what a TE44/TA49 will do. The larger turbo will make more top end horespower...but....since the stock motor craps out around 5100 RPM's it better have an efficient converter or it will kill the top end. Mods to increase RPM capability of the motor will help a lot.

So with ported heads, a cam, a converter and/or high boost (25 psi+) a large turbo makes sense.

Stock motor, stock converter, moderate boost its better to stay conservative when selecting a turbo.

 

[Rob Scala]

The theory makes sense and is probably true. Now who do you buy the turbo from?

Who's Turbos are working the best and most affordable???

 

[automorph]

Limit Engineering
(928) 453-7321

Have heard NOTHING bad about Limit turbos

 

[Two Lane]

Ditto www.cottonsperformance.com

Jack is great to talk with and takes a personal interest in your needs and set-up.

A real-world wealth of info on turbo TRs...especially BB turbos.

HTH

 

[ALBERTAN]

Originally posted by UNGN
It's not the turbo, its what you do with it.

Many people buy into the myth that bolting on a big turbo will "allow the car to make more power at low boost".

They are disappointed when their TE5X at 16 psi ET's slower than some people with a stock turbo at the same boost level.

A larger turbo does two things: 1.) it allows higher boost to be made more efficiently and 2) it moves the torque curve higher up the RPM scale. Peak torque or average torque may actually decrease, but higher up the RPM scale the torque is shifted, the more Peak HP the car will make.

The idea is use a turbo that fits your car's combination. The TE44 and TA49 will both spool at 2400 RPM so no converter is required. They are also very efficient with a stock motor up to 23 psi. It's pretty easy to see why many relatively stock cars are fast (mid 11's) using these turbos.

Using a larger turbo (like a TE54 for example) in a relatively stock car you run into a few problems. The turbo won't spool until 3000+ rpm so you need a converter to achieve 60fts anywhere near what a TE44/TA49 will do. The larger turbo will make more top end horespower...but....since the stock motor craps out around 5100 RPM's it better have an efficient converter or it will kill the top end. Mods to increase RPM capability of the motor will help a lot.

So with ported heads, a cam, a converter and/or high boost (25 psi+) a large turbo makes sense.

Stock motor, stock converter, moderate boost its better to stay conservative when selecting a turbo.

Great post UNGN. Thanks. I'd like to take it one step further. What would you say is the limit for someone wanting to stay with a stock motor? I don't mind changing the stall, and a cam change could be in the future. But I'd really like to stay away from ported heads for awhile since I understand they can open up a whole can of worms. My question then I guess is what would be a good turbo if you wanted to stay with a relatively simple turbo/stall, V4, and bigger injector combo? I had a TE54 on the brain, but I don't want to end up like so many before me with a slower than stock GN after $$$ spent. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Rob Scala]

If you dont mind, who makes the intercooler in your picture?
The larger one? What size is it and how much horsepower does it handle??? Thanks, I appreciate it

 

[salvageV6]

Dean there seems to be more problems with cam installs than ported iron heads in MHO.

I would say a 61 or 62, maybe a 63 and the proper stall.

Ball bearing maybe a 66.

I think I'm going for the 61 with my 3K stall Vigilante.

 

[Two Lane]

Rob, it's on the website underneath the pic...CAS

HTH

 

[azgn]

Dean, with stock heads stick with something like a TE-60, PT-52, etc......do not even consider something like a TE-45 without heads, cam & 3600 stall or you'll be sorry.....

my car with a V4 and TA-49 ran 11.7's....how fast ya wanna go?

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by ALBERTAN
Great post UNGN. Thanks. I'd like to take it one step further. What would you say is the limit for someone wanting to stay with a stock motor? I don't mind changing the stall, and a cam change could be in the future. But I'd really like to stay away from ported heads for awhile since I understand they can open up a whole can of worms. My question then I guess is what would be a good turbo if you wanted to stay with a relatively simple turbo/stall, V4, and bigger injector combo? I had a TE54 on the brain, but I don't want to end up like so many before me with a slower than stock GN after $$$ spent. Thanks for any feedback.

If you want to stay away from ported heads, then you need to run higher boost than someone with a similar sized turbo to achieve the same goals. A ported head car at 22 psi may run as quick as stock motored car at 27 psi. People running "really fast" with the stock motor (10's are using a big turbo and lots of boost). You get to a point where you run so much boost that a blown head gasket is bound to happen, then take that opportunity to improve the head flow.

Lots of people have runs 10's with a stock longblock, but the practical limit is really mid to low 11's. Beyond that, there is too much potential lost in the heads that it's more economical to port the heads than do anything else.

Building a "high 10 second car" costs three times as much as building a "mid to high 11 second car" and if you only buy 1/2 the stuff you need to run 10 seconds, you end up with a "low 12 second car" that cost 1.5 times as much as another guys "mid to high 11 second car".

Its combination, combination, combination

 

[Rob Scala]

Does CAS have a web site of their own. If not how much did that intercooler cost? And big of a difference did it make? Thanks

 

[ALBERTAN]

Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it.

SalvageV6 - Thanks for the feedback on the cam. Perhaps the problem comes from improper cam selection. At any rate I'll pay close attention to it when I get to it down the road. I haven't looked into the T63 or T66 as I had thought they were just a little too big for the my 50 pounders. I'll go back and research them some more though. Like I say, I don't mind a bigger stall. I just want to run the stock longblock through next season while I continue to learn about these cars.

azgn - I had been thinking TE52 for the longest time and was just recently pondering the TE54 for a little room to grow, allowing me to grow into 55 pounders and a modded ECM in the 2004 season. I know a 45 is way out of my league for the forseeable future. I'd like to run solidly in the 11's without really beating on the car. I tickled the 12s this weekend, but I had to run very high boost and maxed out injectors to do it. I don't want to always have to talk nicely to my car in the staging lanes coaxing it to stay together. I guess if pressed I'd say around 11.3 to 11.5....working it hard but not running the ragged edge.

UNGN - I do plan on going to ported iron heads at some point with this car but not for another season or two. At that point I'd also be willing to go into the block to start beefing things up. My current plans are not so much to run a given time but more to wind up around 500-550 HP which I understand is about the safe limit for our cars. Hopefully once I get there and have put a strong tune into the car, I'll have enough knowledge to move on...I certainly do not right now. It sounds like a mid-11 second goal/expectation would be a reasonable one right now though when you put it all together.

Combination combination, combination? You're preaching to the converted brutha. I spent the day in the pits with my buddies with supercharged Mustangs. 14.X's @ 105 mph... thrown belts...and just general dismay on their part that their cars didn't run as fast as the resident guru at the Corral. I felt bad for them. And more importantly realized that fun at the track comes not only from running fast down the track, but also from avoiding those headaches in the pits.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

 

[DCVING 6]

May be a stupid question, but how would the stock turbo stack up with stock ported heads?

I was thinking of swapping in a set of ported irons over the winter time. If I do the heads, its not really in my budget to run out and get a new turbo. If I got the turbo too, my bluetops would be maxed out QUICK.

So how does Ported Irons/stock turbo/bluetops sound?

 

[GNandGS]

"BlueTops run 9's"

I think they would be just fine on a stock turbo car with some headwork. No room to grow IMO but "enuf".

And no, I dont subscribe to the notion that the BT's run nines.

S

 

[Dan K]

Originally posted by ALBERTAN
azgn - I had been thinking TE52 for the longest time and was just recently pondering the TE54 for a little room to grow, allowing me to grow into 55 pounders and a modded ECM in the 2004 season. I know a 45 is way out of my league for the forseeable future. I'd like to run solidly in the 11's without really beating on the car. I tickled the 12s this weekend, but I had to run very high boost and maxed out injectors to do it. I don't want to always have to talk nicely to my car in the staging lanes coaxing it to stay together. I guess if pressed I'd say around 11.3 to 11.5....working it hard but not running the ragged edge.

I was just about to post asking this same thing. I'm going to go with 50's with the stock ECM though. When I bought my car, the guy I bought it from gave me a new TE45a, but told me it was probably too big for my goals, so I sold it.
He suggested a 62 or 63 and that I could hit mid-low 11's. Sound possible?
Also, the motor is staying untouched, but the car does have a Kenne Bell front mount if it matters.
So what turbo should I consider?
Also, I'm going to call Jack and John and get their opinions...just wondering what you guys thought.

 

[azgn]

well, any way you cut it, anything much below 11.5 in a stock weight car will require lots of horsepower.....how you get there is optional.....certainly a 52 & up turbo would be plenty but to get those 11.3 timeslips your boost gauge will be north of 25

port the heads, cam, big stall and you are there at 20-23 lbs

same hp, different method...opinions vary on which beats the car harder

to go faster than high 11's puts you into a full blown racing mode with corresponding breakage and expensive parts....to believe otherwise is just plain unwise

 

[ALBERTAN]

Hmmmm. I guess then I'll reserve the low 11 second goal for a couple of years from now and just shoot for getting into the 11s next year. I'm in no rush. My car survived with the boost gauge north of 25 this past weekend, but I don't want to go there again any time soon.