So, Who DID Actually Pick Up WIth a GTQ?
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Oh, so the claim is a half second now. i'm sure it was with the same tune also. Dyno test both with the same ex. housing on the same car, same day, same exact tune then post your results. Do you want to know if its the GTQ or if its the ex. housing.
You want proof? Then get a copy of the last issue of GM High-Tech Jan 2005. Cal Hartline used Louie Lopez's TSM car to compare a LT-70 , LT-70 with a GTQ exhaust and a TSM legal GTQ-70. They did back to back dyno tests. They used the same boost, air/fuel ratio and water temp. There was a 21 hp differance from the LT-70 to the GTQ-70. They were run at 23lbs boost, and there would have been a larger differance at higher boost levels.
I would have liked to have seen a 70 ball bearing Q trim in there. I went from a PT-70 to a CPT70QBB and picked up almost .05, but that was with some tuning.
I would have liked to have seen a 70 ball bearing Q trim in there. I went from a PT-70 to a CPT70QBB and picked up almost .05, but that was with some tuning.
What is 20hp in a 9 sec brick of a TR at 23lbs of boost and I'll tell ya is .05, not .5.
Funny on that test how they measured spool time from 8-23psi. Why not do it from 0-23psi?
Funny how guys defend a turbo. i can care less which would turn out to be better, i just think the test should be fairly and correctly done> i would think the Turbonetics BB 70 would be as good as the LT70, so if you want to trade lag, and stress on your drivetrain for 20HP (oh, and more money) that is the buyers business. I'd just like a controlled test between the 2 and measuring spool time from 0-30.
Funny on that test how they measured spool time from 8-23psi. Why not do it from 0-23psi?
Funny how guys defend a turbo. i can care less which would turn out to be better, i just think the test should be fairly and correctly done> i would think the Turbonetics BB 70 would be as good as the LT70, so if you want to trade lag, and stress on your drivetrain for 20HP (oh, and more money) that is the buyers business. I'd just like a controlled test between the 2 and measuring spool time from 0-30.
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Your point is...????
What is your point in this thread? Is it just to stir up crap?
The original question was answered by a few of the most credible owners with ACTUAL experience with a fast performance car and appropiate turbo.
There is no reason they need to "defend" their comments about actual track performance results. You come in with unwarranted and unfounded comments that is just BS, and adds nothing to the technical merits of this discussion.
If you have something to CONTRIBUTE, that is fine. If you want to debate the information, start your own thread in the "Lounge" where it would belong, not here in a tech area.
I will also advise you if you do not like my response, it would be best to contact me direct.
What is your point in this thread? Is it just to stir up crap?
The original question was answered by a few of the most credible owners with ACTUAL experience with a fast performance car and appropiate turbo.
There is no reason they need to "defend" their comments about actual track performance results. You come in with unwarranted and unfounded comments that is just BS, and adds nothing to the technical merits of this discussion.
If you have something to CONTRIBUTE, that is fine. If you want to debate the information, start your own thread in the "Lounge" where it would belong, not here in a tech area.
I will also advise you if you do not like my response, it would be best to contact me direct.
I have tested the gtq vs the p trim 70 , on an iron headed, with very mild porting your will pick up ZERO, but actually lose .2 on the average. This was tested on two cars and both cars lost .2and 1 .5 mph. If the heads are alum and can flow more air or HEAVILY reworked Irons as on bramfords car, laz etc then you will get that 20 hp. This is my findings of two 231 engines with mild porting on stock heads. The dyno test should have been done on stock heads.
Nothing has been proven. If that is how you deduce the effectiveness of a turbo than I deffinately would not take your advice on Turbo matters. If your saying your point has been proven with a gain of 23HP over a turbo that is not even being compared in this thread is proof, than I still say the point is pointless> I'm sure everyone who got this turbo used a different tune on the felpro, I'm trying to find out if it is the turbo or exhaust housing, and you are getting upset. You say I'm trying to cause problems because I am making valid arguments against . I'm trying to get to the technical side of it and YOU ARE NOT. I am not taking away from anybody's accomplishments at the track YOU ARE. You are saying it is all the turbo, I think it is a little bit turbo, and very good tuning...see, i am giving the tuner credit, and the guy driving the car, not the turbo.
Why should I have to contact you direct if I do not like your response? Isn't this an open forum? I have not broken a rule, I haven't even said anything bad about a vendors product.
Why should I have to contact you direct if I do not like your response? Isn't this an open forum? I have not broken a rule, I haven't even said anything bad about a vendors product.
Same tune up, target A/F and timing with both turbos. The times were run at different tracks maybe that is why it picked up so much mph.
Do you want to know if its the GTQ or if its the ex. housing. [/B][/QUOTE]
I am not sure what you are getting at with the above statement please explain.
smokinttype
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So does everyone agree that if you are running iron heads; that they have to be HEAVILY ported to get a little bit of what the turbo has to offer?
I just switched and havent finished the swap yet and dont really know what to expect b/c only a few have gotten the same result and others havent been so lucky. Later on I plan on moving to GN1's and roller rockers but money isnt going that far right now so I have to make do.... what can I really expect from this turbo while still using iron heads? Mine is only a 2.5" outlet with a 4" Inlet 70GTQ.85 Would I be better off buying a 74 P-Trim for my current iron heads?
I just switched and havent finished the swap yet and dont really know what to expect b/c only a few have gotten the same result and others havent been so lucky. Later on I plan on moving to GN1's and roller rockers but money isnt going that far right now so I have to make do.... what can I really expect from this turbo while still using iron heads? Mine is only a 2.5" outlet with a 4" Inlet 70GTQ.85 Would I be better off buying a 74 P-Trim for my current iron heads?
Why do people who have thier mind made up about something ask other peoples opinions & then ignore the facts. The cars set-up to take atvantage of this turbo have the proof that it's the ticket, & they are not trying to hype it to people with slower cars just to sell it to people that don't need it. I agree with AZGN "WHATS YOUR POINT"?
I dont see why it has to be the same tune, Every combo likes different things(timing,fuel,etc)
The test should be to max out each turbos abilty to make power.If the GTQ makes its best power at 32#s so be it, It makes more power there
If the other turbos are maxed out at 26#s,well the GTQ has the ability to make more power.
This same scenario crap is exactly that crap.
Max out the tune and the combo with both turbos efficiently and put up the numbers,Thats were its at.
In other terms,MAYBE, the GTQ turbo doesnt run well at 24#s of boost but runs great at 32#s.Thats were the numbers should be determined.
The test should be to max out each turbos abilty to make power.If the GTQ makes its best power at 32#s so be it, It makes more power there
If the other turbos are maxed out at 26#s,well the GTQ has the ability to make more power.
This same scenario crap is exactly that crap.
Max out the tune and the combo with both turbos efficiently and put up the numbers,Thats were its at.
In other terms,MAYBE, the GTQ turbo doesnt run well at 24#s of boost but runs great at 32#s.Thats were the numbers should be determined.
ttypewhite
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I have to agree with KLHAMMETT on this. Max each turbo out and see which one performs better. Boost is irrelivent, tuning is key.
This is a good thread.
I think the question(s) were actually answered early on. If you go back and re-read it, you will see it. (norbs and GNSCOTTS first posts)
But is the question "is the GTQ better then the BB", or "should I upgrade to the GTQ"?
It all depends on the combo and application, right?
What was the original question(s)?
1. "Who DID Actually Pick Up WIth a GTQ?"
2. is "the GTQ ' the better choice over a 72BB"?
3. is "the GTQ 'a' better choice over a 72BB for my application"
4. is "the GTQ ' really worth the alleged 100-200hp over a standard Q-trim turbo"? ((Is this a typo? Should it be 10-20?))
5. "spooling manners on the street is basically a non-issue".
Just something to think about:
What if I was to order four identical turbos, turbo "X". Two from Limit and two from PTE. Same exhuast hosing, wheel, fin design, etc, etc, whatever.
Would it not be possible / probable that when I tested these four turbos, the difference in ET and MPH could be off by ??? 5%? or 10%? 25%???
Would I, could I, should I not "tune" before and after each 1/4 mile run?
What if I tested the four turbos on two or three identical cars? What if the temp was the same, but the humidity was different? What if I changed the oil or spark plugs or cleaned my air filter?
What if I gave my car with a BB turbo to Ken Dutweiler and Laz for one week and they run a 9.88?
And what if I took the BB turbo off, put on a GTQ turbo, and I gave my car to Red Armstrong and Cal Hartline for one week and they run a 10.10?
It seems that most / all people that switch to a GTQ are very happy with it. I would think that if someone switches to a GTQ, and they see a big gain, they are not going to go back to the BB turbo and tune like hell to see if they can get the same or better results.
I think the question(s) were actually answered early on. If you go back and re-read it, you will see it. (norbs and GNSCOTTS first posts)
But is the question "is the GTQ better then the BB", or "should I upgrade to the GTQ"?
It all depends on the combo and application, right?
What was the original question(s)?
1. "Who DID Actually Pick Up WIth a GTQ?"
2. is "the GTQ ' the better choice over a 72BB"?
3. is "the GTQ 'a' better choice over a 72BB for my application"
4. is "the GTQ ' really worth the alleged 100-200hp over a standard Q-trim turbo"? ((Is this a typo? Should it be 10-20?))
5. "spooling manners on the street is basically a non-issue".
Just something to think about:
What if I was to order four identical turbos, turbo "X". Two from Limit and two from PTE. Same exhuast hosing, wheel, fin design, etc, etc, whatever.
Would it not be possible / probable that when I tested these four turbos, the difference in ET and MPH could be off by ??? 5%? or 10%? 25%???
Would I, could I, should I not "tune" before and after each 1/4 mile run?
What if I tested the four turbos on two or three identical cars? What if the temp was the same, but the humidity was different? What if I changed the oil or spark plugs or cleaned my air filter?
What if I gave my car with a BB turbo to Ken Dutweiler and Laz for one week and they run a 9.88?
And what if I took the BB turbo off, put on a GTQ turbo, and I gave my car to Red Armstrong and Cal Hartline for one week and they run a 10.10?
It seems that most / all people that switch to a GTQ are very happy with it. I would think that if someone switches to a GTQ, and they see a big gain, they are not going to go back to the BB turbo and tune like hell to see if they can get the same or better results.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
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- May 25, 2001
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- 20,988
I think the more they are tested and used the more "questioning" the un-controlled experimenting will be. 
Like changing a Felpro program and the turbo to pick up the time and attributing it to the turbo alone.
Like omitting true spooling data from a magazine test and starting at 8psi. LOL
Like banning people from this thread that have opinions.
Like changing a Felpro program and the turbo to pick up the time and attributing it to the turbo alone.
Like omitting true spooling data from a magazine test and starting at 8psi. LOL
Like banning people from this thread that have opinions.
Originally posted by norbs
Good that you mentioned felpro, as the felpro data shows i need lower ve numbers, with means less fuel with the gtq then the p-trim. Hence less horsepower ouput. Or is the turbo more efficient? causing this?
No, it means that it is not working right with your combination. I think I remember you do not have high flowing parts on your combo. Maybe can't take advantage of the wheels??
I probably take a certain CFM to get into the sweet spot.
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