Starting issues

[turbo39151]

Ok maybe I'm loosing my mind but I cannot seem to get any cooperation out of this car...

I replaced the t-chain, (rotated the engine just to make sure no issues), buttoned everything back up. Primed the oil (70psi)... set the cam sensor twice to make sure I was at TDC then 25 degrees past (Even removed #1 plug to make sure), used the cam sensor tool and followed directions, checked all grounds, all connections, sensors (double checked the cam sensor and crank sensor position just to be safe) and spark plug routing.
No leaks, problems that I can see.

Car cranks but won't fire. Pulled plugs. All wet. Replaced plugs, cranks but will not start. All items were working perfectly before I took it apart. Did not modify any sensors just put it all back like it was supposed to go.

What am I missing?

 

[turbo39151]

I couldn't edit: Plugs were wet with fuel.

Still searching for fix. Anyone have some ideas?

 

[turbobooster]

have u done any testing on ur ignition module? might b bad just an idea since its all in relation to spark

 

[TurboDave]

How confident are you that the crank sensor was setup properly?

 

[turbo39151]

Ignition module was working perfectly before disassembly. Not sure why it would not be working now...

As for the crank sensor. I got under there and checked the placement and then double checked under another GN that runs... Same placement. There is no binding that I can see or hear. What more is there to setting the crank sensor?

Also, I figured the car would at least start with the fouled plugs but run terribly... Didn't happen. Just cranked and cranked and emitted a muffled huffing almost popping sound out of the exhaust... Not backfire... I rechecked the cam sensor with cap off and window was facing passenger side. Pulled it and re-set timing mark (pulled #1 lug to make sure), reinserted the sensor, aligned with tool and re-tried. Still no start.

 

[turbo39151]

Any other ideas?

 

[TurboDave]

The huffing sound from the exhaust during cranking indicates a mechanical timing issue.

You'll probably have to pull a valve cover, bring the cylinders on that side to TDC and watch valve movement to make sure they're closed when you expect them to be and open when you expect them to be.

 

[turbo39151]

I will do that. Thanks...

On a side note: I was just thinking that I was pretty tired when I did the T-chain. Is it possible to have installed it out of phase? I know my dots lined up and I checked for easy movement but I simply cannot recall if I double checked my tdc...

 

[turbo39151]

Just double checked and confirmed spark across whole coil pack.

Also, pulled DS valve cover to check valve movement. At TDC looked like both closed on #1 and Intake was closed on #3 and Exhaust closed on #5. (IIRC I thought that was the expected movement- please advise if I am mistaken)

I also double checked crank sensor for clearance of the reluctor and it looked good on both sides...

I'm really stumped as to what the problem could be. I need some "experts" to chime in. I have this feeling that it's something stupid or unrelated. (as it usually turns out with these cars..)

At this time all the electrical seems good, I have fuel, spark and air and still no start.

Is it possible to be 180 degrees out of phase with regard to the timing? (I know it's possible to do on the modular ford engine. wonder if it's a possibility since I'm out of ideas) I haven't been able to find a definitive answer.

 

[GullsGN]

You are at tdc on the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke, right?

 

[turbo39151]

Yes it was on compression stroke.

 

[whitehot1]

You have the crank sensor set like this?

There are two things to note when installing a new crank sensor

 

[whitehot1]

I read that you said you have spark. How did you check this? You have spark at the spark plugs?

The orange power wire for the ecm, over by the battery is plugged in,right?

Just checking to be sure since i can't see. :smile:

Have you went back and double checked everything that you had to disconnect,move,unhook to get access to the front cover when you did the timing chain?

 

[turbo39151]

Crank sensor is set as the pic. I also referenced another running GN to make sure.

I checked for spark at the coil pack and I have brand new wires that were working fine when I took this car apart a few months ago.

Orange wire is plugged in. (I understand about redundant questions. No worries. I've been hoping it was something stupid that I missed )

I think I have checked and re-checked all connections now about 10 times. I even unplugged the maf to make sure that wasn't the problem.

I've set and re-set the cam sensor.

I've triple checked the timing marks and ensured ATDC.

I'm about ready to pull the cam and crank sensor and put new ones on to rule them out.

I tired to start it a few minutes ago and it cranks, and there's oil pressure but I still get the huffing noise out of the exhaust. However, when I pulled the valve covers everything seemed to be working like it's supposed to...

I'm running out of patience.
Any other ideas?

BTW, thanks to everyone who is putting the ideas out there...

 

[turbo39151]

Just pulled a plug and left it attached to the wire and I get no spark. WTF?
I'll be swapping the crank sensor shortly to see if this fixes the issue. Otherwise, I'm wondering about the coil pack/ignition module. Not sure how they can take a crap on me when they've just been sitting for a months but worked fine previously.

 

[whitehot1]

Just pulled a plug and left it attached to the wire and I get no spark. WTF?
I'll be swapping the crank sensor shortly to see if this fixes the issue. Otherwise, I'm wondering about the coil pack/ignition module. Not sure how they can take a crap on me when they've just been sitting for a months but worked fine previously.

Oh don't be surprised if the ignition module did crap out like that.

I had one go out that way once.

Drove the car one day getting into the boost pretty good ran like a top,no issues at all. Pulled into the garage and left it there until the next morning,went out to start it up and no-start,i was like what the heck happened. Commenced doing checks and it turned out to be the ignition module was bad. weird happenings with these cars sometimes.

Don't get frustrated we'll find the gremlin,there are alot of talented well experienced people on this board that will help you. Take a little break have a cup of coffee or a coke and relax a minute.

 

[turbo39151]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the wonky things these cars do. I find it funny that I still get frustrated with these things. I should know better. It seems as if this is nearly always the norm.

I remember once when I had to change the starter. Got it all done and buttoned up and then the car had a flat tire - out of nowhere! Can't seem to ever win.

Wife is out buying a new crank sensor. I'll try that first and then move on to the ignition module and coil pack.

As soon as I know something I'll post up.

Thanks for all the help thus far....

 

[whitehot1]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the wonky things these cars do. I find it funny that I still get frustrated with these things. I should know better. It seems as if this is nearly always the norm.

I remember once when I had to change the starter. Got it all done and buttoned up and then the car had a flat tire - out of nowhere! Can't seem to ever win.

Wife is out buying a new crank sensor. I'll try that first and then move on to the ignition module and coil pack.

As soon as I know something I'll post up.

Thanks for all the help thus far....

If you can't get an AC Delco crank sensor get the BWD one from O'Reilly's, i know they work.

 

[turbo39151]

I'll take what she brings me and I'll be happy with it.







Or else....

 

[whitehot1]

I should have mentioned this site earlier,not sure if you know about it or not but has alot of good info and troubleshooting tips.

It could save you both time and money.

Trouble Shooting