Starting T-Type After LONG Term Storage

[Chuck Leeper]

I can't see the pics ,if i click on the link in any of your posts it says I do not have permission to see the media,so i'm guessing alot of others can't see them either.

Correct.

 

[DR BOOST]

Very important. Make sure all the little cups come out with the stock injectors.

have you verified this? this can be a cause of your problem

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Can't see pic's either, same error message.

The clean plug is likely the cylinder that got the water in it.

RemoveBeforeFlight

Sorry guys... somehow I must have switched the album to private. Should be public now, so let me know if you still can't see anything. (Keep in mind the pictures earlier in the thread were deleted since I hit the limit.)

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

have you verified this? this can be a cause of your problem

Yes. Thanks. I reassembled all the old injectors and thoroughly cleaned out the injector "receptacles" to make sure there was nothing was leftover.

 

[t-typinator]

Now the pics can be seen from post 63 and on.
With the oil looking like that and that 1 plug looking like it's been steam cleaned, it definetly looks like a blown head gasket.

If it didn't blow outwards the oil pan and pickup is probably full of material.

 

[Shawn N]

Exactly. Clint I can do Mon or Sat to help tear it down.

 

[t-typinator]

Just out of curiosity which cylinder did the clean spark plug come out of ?

update : never mind i went back thru the thread and saw that it was #5

I would check that Exhaust cam lobe very closely as well as #3 exhaust lobe also.
Actually the whole cam and lifters need to be checked well, but pay close attention to those 2.

Also just in case you don't know ,make sure you mark which lifter came off of which lobe and put them back the same way if you plan on reusing them.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Just out of curiosity which cylinder did the clean spark plug come out of ?

update : never mind i went back thru the thread and saw that it was #5

I would check that Exhaust cam lobe very closely as well as #3 exhaust also.
Actually the whole cam and lifters need to be checked well, but pay close attention to those 2.

Also just in case you don't know ,make sure you mark which lifter came off of which lobe and put them back the same way if you plan on reusing them.

I plan on photographing, labeling, and cleaning or replacing everything that comes out so it goes back in right places. Hopefully I'll get to the leak-down testing today, and that will shed a little more light as well as give me a baseline for when everything is put back together.

Thanks for the good advice. I'm feeling much more confident that the car is going to run better than it ever did when all is said and done.

 

[t-typinator]

Any updates ? Teardown Pics ?

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Nothing terribly new to add. Pulled the turbo and headers tonight, and removed all the easy head bolts. Tomorrow, time willing, the heads will come off.

I have a theory as to why the gasket may have gone kaput. I found a smallish chunk of calcified sediment in the valley when I pulled the intake plenum, presumably generated from the coolant sitting for so long. I'm wondering if said chunk or similar was blocking a coolant channel leading to some pressure and/or heat build up... leading to the head gasket breaching. This would explain why the original oil was fine, but upon sitting and restart this chunk developed then became dislodged - hence the breach and coolant in the oil. Just a thought.

New question: If there is sediment should I 1) go ahead and replace the radiator as a precaution, and should I 2) "clear out" the heater core?

A buddy suggested running a bottle of radiator cleaner through the heater core directly through the inlet... blowing it through (at low pressure) with compressed air, and just using some tubing and a catch bottle at the outlet. Anyone tried this before? (I'd rather pull headers again than pull a heater core.)

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[Chuck Leeper]

Head bolts out?? What happened to the leak down test?

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Rented one leak down tester, and it was a piece of junk. Bought another one, and it leaked at the adjustment knob right out of the box. Decided to move forward rather than wait another couple of days to find out what I'm already pretty certain of.

I'll get them bench tested when they are decked.

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[87_TX_T-Type]

Heads are off. Head gaskets look... fine. (???) I'll try to take some pics, but I did not see any breaks between the jackets/cylinders. Head gasket damage I've seen in the past presents a clear blow out, so I'm a bit perplexed - but I'm no expert.

Cylinder 5 definitely looks a bit steam cleaned like the spark plug was. Carbon build up on the valves and piston head looks like it has started to flake off some.

 

[t-typinator]

I would say start looking around for cracks.
Check the heads themselves for cracks,and cracks at the headbolt holes on the block.
Does it look like thread sealer was used on the headbolts.

Try taking pics of everything,( try some with and without a flash for best results) and posting them,maybe something will stand out.

 

[Lil Truck]

Did you find sludge on the bottom of the intake manifold ? A small leak will steam the oil leave a milky sludge on the bottom of the intake. It's possible it was just leaking in #5 and going out the exhaust also.

 

[t-typinator]

Did you find sludge on the bottom of the intake manifold ? A small leak will steam the oil leave a milky slide on the bottom of the intake. It's possible it was just leaking in #5 and going out the exhaust also.

Intake leak could possibly explain the sediment chunk you found after taking off the intake.
Check out your intake and intake gasket/gaskets (depending which kind was used) for signs of leakage.
It would be nice if that was the case instead of something cracked.

Is their any evidence of water sitting in the cylinder for any length of time?
If #5 piston is up top i would turn over the engine to get a peek at the whole cylinder.
I would actually check out all the cylinders conditions and anything else that may have caught some damage from this problem and/or sitting for so many years.
I know you have to find what caused this problem first,but after you do that i would suggest dropping the oil pan and see what that situation looks like and popping a couple caps off and ckecking out the bearings,good time to maybe replace the rear main seal too if needed. Don't forget to scrutinize the cam and lifters .
Pics and more pics will help you too, so the Guru's can see them and give recomendations.
As much as it sucks doing all the extra work ,it would suck worse missing something and having to take it all apart again

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

At the recommendation of Shawn N, I had an EXCELLENT conversation with Jack Laswell this morning. Wow does this guy know stuff. Articulate, knowledgeable, and beyond helpful. Above all else, he at no point tried to sell me on his services despite my offer to pretty much give him my business. So you can add integrity to the list as well.

I'll try to quickly annotate everything we discussed as it's exactly the more nuanced information that you don't always get from a manual: (Sorry if I'm regurgitating common information.)

Head Bolt Installation: When using the ARP 9441's do not use the included bolt lubricant, but do use Permatex thread sealer by applying a thin coat entirely to the threads of bolt, inside of hole, and above/below the washer (under the head of the bolt). Torque bolts in sequence in 15lbs increments up to 75lbs. Let sit overnight, then back off a quarter turn. Then re-tighten to 75lbs for the bottom bolts and 80lbs for the top. (He said the torque difference is to help the gasket blow out instead of in, in the case of future issues.)

General Re-surfacing of the Heads: He actually shied away from resurfacing the heads without there explicitly being an issue; although, I told him I need a more experienced set of eyes on these to feel more comfortable about the condition. He noted head bolts holes around #s 5 & 6 are the most prone to cracking (per T-typinator as well), so pay close attention to them. He recommended Kim Barr Racing to do the machining work, which is nice since I've used Kim in the past. He also said that the Fel-Pro head gasket was a good choice, but to advise Kim to apply a resurfacing finish in accordance with a Cometic gasket. I believe this had something to do with potential future upgrades.

Plastic Timing Gear: He noted that these can fail at any time, and if the engine is half way disassembled - might as well replace this with its metal roller equivalent for safety. This was new to me.

ZDD+: He informed me that there is also an equivalent of this sold as Lucas Oil Engine Break-in Additive.

Just thought I'd share real quick I'll try to snap some photos fairly soon.

 

[Venus]

I will be in a similar situation in about a month. I just purchased a 16k mile WE4 from the original owner that has been sitting for 6years. Luckily the car has been stored in a heated garage during those 6yrs and the owner put race gas in the tank so it seems somethings were done correctly before storage. This is a great thread!

 

[t-typinator]

Yup, definetly have the heads checked for cracks and flatness, along with everything else,valves ,seats,seals,springs,rockers,shafts, etc.

The plastic timing gear MAY have been upgraded already ,when they rebuilt it yrs ago.
If you go with a double roller chain,make sure you do a search about it (Very important ) because of a tensioner that needs to be removed when going to the roller chain.
Don't know if Lucas would be the equivalent,but would suggest the zddp+ instead ,as it was designed by probably the most respected turbo regal guy out there,specifically for our cars. Can't say that about Lucas.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Well... I think I may have found the culprit. If true, I just probably did a whole lot of work for nothing. I was inspecting the heads and head gaskets, but nothing looked out of the ordinary.

Then I looked over at the old intake manifold gasket sitting nearby, and noticed two things: 1) At the circled area there is a break in the coolant channel next to #2. I could have done this when I took it out, but the rest of the gasket feels pretty sturdy - so doubtful. 2) There is also an odd "blow out" looking area at the arrow, and it looks like the gasket sealer in that area has been eaten away over time.

Thoughts? I can see how this could contaminate the oil, right?

Intake_Gasket

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Feb 27, 2017

Here are the heads, and the block on the driver's side.

P_Side_Head

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Feb 27, 2017

D_Side_Head

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Feb 27, 2017

Circled area is where it looks like the carbon is flaking off, which is also where the spark plug was "steam" cleaned.

D-Side_Block

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Feb 27, 2017

So if I assume that the intake gasket was leaking coolant into the oil... how does this lead to a misfire or only #5 getting steam cleaned? (Or are they even related?)