State of the Buick Community: What to keep it from dying? Please check it out???

[Turbo-Archie]

I think the Turbo Regal had its place in time but adding to what Jay posted above, The LS cars helped as they took over IMO..


I've been thinking out of the box for a class that reminds me of the Street Stockers (those round-e-rounds)

A $1000 short block buy out class for the poor


...

 

[scot w.]

I bet if we only had 1 or 2 events a year, those events would be packed.

You got:
Reynolds
Tb.com nats
Norwalk
Bpg
Osceola
Bowling green
Oklahoma

And maybe more I don't know of.

With a limited budget, you can't go to all of them. So, if you and everyone one else only attend 2, the crowds really get thinned out.

Kevin you hit the nail on the head!

The "Mopar Nationals" & "LSX Fest" don't have 7 events a year with minimal attendance they have one or maybe 2 Large events that are packed!!

Just think what the turn out would be for the "Power Tour" if they had 7 a year!! LOL

 

[SS/GN]

Well here is my 2 cents

1- In the economic times we are in every class has smaller car counts,look at NHRA National events not filling all the car or spectator spots.It is simple we have to put a roof over our heads,eat and cloth our family and what ever is left over is for our beloved TR.Hell my cat just had 3 teeth rmoved and my new intercooler got shelvedThe cost to travel is high and income is low,pretty simple


2-lets be honesty the class thing is dying,when ever 1 or 2 cars has the rest of the field covered by more than 3 tenths nobody is going to drive for 9 hours if they know they are not going to be competitiveA very smart many time NHRA world champion once told me headsup racing will empty your bank account bracket racing can make you money,then their is that ego thing that was previously mentioned

3-Now the chinese junk thing,Thanks for getting me started Jay:biggrin:The reason #1 has happened is because we buy cheap junk off shore and our own people are not working,simple.If we are unemployed we have no money to play.I have said this before BUY FROM SUPPORTING VENDORS

4-Recommendations,Index racing offers a level playing field,Grudge match hour where you pair up and race old school street style(exchange money if you want)


For me,I am going to try and race 1 Buick event a year,sell my enclosed trailer and buy an open one to help offset travelling expenses and Buy made in North America from supporting vendors

Kevin

 

[TurboDave]

I couldn't agree more, especially with number 2. Very VERY few can actually be competative in class racing. And don't get me started on the endless pages of rediculous rules!!! Dump the rules AND the classes and go index racing. Bracket racing is cool, but no where near as good as index racing. Too much room for sandbaggers in bracket racing.

No Box index racing!!!!! The only way to get interest back.

Face it folks, classes are going the way of the dinasour.

 

[Rebel]

Index racing w/pro tree levels the playing field. That's what Pink's discovered.

 

[TurboDave]

Doesn't HAVE to be a pro tree. But that would make life interesting.

 

[aminga]

Theres a need for street driven small turbo/injector cars class.

Exactly. Of all the race classes at the 2009 Nats TSA was the most appropriate (stock turbo, stock unopened motor) but it had an ATR downpipe so it isn't compliant.

And Anthony, I'm not so sure about an all GM show. Part of the reason for this the new summit catalog came out and I was browsing it. I see lots of SBC, BCC and LS1 stuff but it's sparse on Buick parts. Being that marketing is what it is, I'd be afraid an all GM show would be dominated by LS vendors and push the buick guys out.

 

[VETKILR]

Good posts guys, really good. Index racing will be available at 2012 Tb.com Nats (hehe). Also 1 or 2 big Buick events would be great. The midwest/south (BPG, BG, Tb.com and Norwalk) are the biggest bar none. Cecil gets a good amount but im not sure exactly how large it is b/c i have never attended.

As Jay said, it is sad. You have people like Glen from NOS4GN spending tons of time and money getting GM Certified OEM parts and NOS parts and then others try to sell off Chinese scrap. Our #1 global economic competitor. GM blood runs deep through my family's veins, in the cars we collect the dealerships we own not to mention we owned a Pontiac dealership for many many years in the height of the Muscle car era. Point being if people want to see something take of you better support your events and support your vendors who do make products in Amercia. Precision Turbo makes everything in house to my knowledge.

May have to include other brands to keep our events going or just go to a few big events each year. Power Tour is once a year, they do i believe 2 LSX Fest. Pontiac and Mopar both who run at Norwalk and National Trail Raceway fill the stands and the lanes like an NHRA event. For the record, Mopar Nats was larger this year then in many previous years from several friends of mine, one who hasnt missed an event in 22 years. Pontiac i went to firsthand at Norwalk and it had 600 plus race cars and 300-400 show cars. Yes they made way more models then the two Buick muscle cars, i.e Turbo Regal and Gran Sport.

I am also lucky bc living in Ohio im 2 hours north of BPG event 1 hour east of Norwalk , 8 hours north of BG and about 8 hours and change to North Carolina which ill be attending next year for the first time.

In order to survive events may have to combine. The major issue will be if people check their ego at the door work with one another to keep the Buick community alive and not have to get their name out there and credit for everything. I put the 3 baddest engineers out there for Turbo Regals,and brought 3 more additional guys this past summer for BPG and Jim Chaudrue put Scott Kelly and i got Bill Owen the 2 fathers of the TTA to come and attend. Many of them had never been to a Buick event and they had a blast. Still after the event few if any people know who i am and that is great by me, small fish in a big pond. Leadership will have to work together, so that passion can supercede and provide spectators, racers and owners all a great time and not let egos or $$ get in the way. Its the only way, just that easy.

 

[BlownV6]

How about a bounty to anyone that can set a new ET record for your event , or new Buick world record!! I know if I shell out money to attend these races I want to see fast cars go down the track. Maybe a bounty will help bring out a few fast cars and will raise the intrest of more spectators and add some sort of anticapation/excitment back into the event. Mike

 

[TType85]

I started with these cars in the mid 90's but have been on a long hiatus since my 85 got stolen around 2001. I went from TR's to a SRT-4, LS1 GTO, LS2 GTO and a C5 Z06. Recently I had the opportunity to get a TR that I put many hours of work in to and I am coming back to the buick community. I am happy to see some of the community is still around.

I have to agree with Jay 100% alot of the issues are self inflicted. The chinese crap parts have been an affliction to all the communities though. Why buy a set of Kooks headers for $1K when you can get a set of e-bay knock off ones for $500? You do get what you pay for. As I find stuff I need to replace I am going to have to be careful who I go with as I want to make sure I support vendors that are keeping our cars alive.

Being on the west coast it is much harder to attend the national events or even decide on which one to go to. Unfortunatly if it is only a couple day event it makes it not worth it to tow a car across country. The GS nationals were a load of fun the 4 or so years I went.

enough rambling....

 

[fast86gn]

The mustang vs turbo regal events came and went in popularity quite fast. I only
attended a couple such events before I quickly lost interest in them. Again it
was all about numbers. They slaughtered us numbers wise. It was never a match.
There are litterally millions of mustangs on the road, always have been, how
many T/R's are left. I would guess no more than 10,000 (of all years) world
wide."

Your right there are a lot more Mustangs than TR's but the OK Buick club is still hosting a Buick vs Ford Shootout every year and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
They have added other GM except Chebies but it's still mostly Buicks. About 100 cars per side. That may be small as far as numbers but you mostly only get cars from the southwest area. The economy etc. keeps everyone close to home. I make this event every year for one it's close to home (less than 200 miles) that makes it easier to afford and it's just a good event.

I would love to do BPG and the Nats every year, it's just to far to travel $$$$ can't afford it. I have gone to the Nats in BG once and had a blast but that was when times were better. The economy is just a killer.

 

[gnxtc2]

I say keep the major Buick classes but allow the other Buick bodied car......Dusty with his turbo'd BBC, Louie L with his turbo'd SBC, Will with turbo'd LS powered GS, Etc, etc. You get theses at the events and others will follow. Once the others find out, they'll come along with vendors and other manufacturers.

Another thing that alot to do with car count is the payouts. I've said it before, guy is not going to drag his car cross country for a $150 payout.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Sydwyndr]

I say keep the major Buick classes but allow the other Buick bodied car......Dusty with his turbo'd BBC, Louie L with his turbo'd SBC, Will with turbo'd LS powered GS, Etc, etc. You get theses at the events and others will follow. Once the others find out, they'll come along with vendors and other manufacturers.

Another thing that alot to do with car count is the payouts. I've said it before, guy is not going to drag his car cross country for a $150 payout.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

We are paying $1000 win / 300RU / 50 semis in May. I feel the need to pay back 4 places to help a racer at least try and recoop some of their expenses. Also agree Buick bodied OR Buick powered.

 

[SS/GN]

What about a BOP(Buick Olds Pont)Each one has A and G boddies.Friendly competition amongst the groups What about 2 bracket classes 9.99 and faster and 10.00 and slower.Then the event people find 16 cars as close as they can to each other and have a heads up race pinks style.No one would know until the event started what class would be in the spotlight.Just a thought,heads up and lots of rules doesn"t seem to be working

Kevin

 

[TurboTGuy]

i think strokers,cams ok.....any iron heads ok??? as long as it appears stock????

This is good, yes, very good.......

Something in the West would be good, too.

 

[KevinB]

Before you guys all stick the fork in heads up class racing, just wait until the main Buick event in October is over. Pretty sure all classes will double in size for this event. We had 16 last year in ths. If it is dead in bg, well then call it, but until then just hold on.

 

[SS/GN]

Before you guys all stick the fork in heads up class racing, just wait until the main Buick event in October is over. Pretty sure all classes will double in size for this event. We had 16 last year in ths. If it is dead in bg, well then call it, but until then just hold on.

No disrespect to any heads up racers,I have helped out on a NHRA superstocker for a few years and it ain"t easy.The costs are just taking the fun out of it for me.With all the other things to pay for I just want to race with people that are passionate for the hobby

Kevin

 

[Brad T]

How about a bracket class . 11.99 or faster $ 50 to enter above regular race ticket 100 % pay back . If you get 30 cars = $1500 plus what ever donors feel they can give . Would make a nice payout and fit biggest number of cars out there . If time allowed you could even do a first round buy back and have a bigger payout . I ran in the brackets for years at the Buick events. The majority of the cars at the events were bracket racing. We used to fill the staging lanes with every class . If we want to have bigger turn outs we have to find a way to get the everyday car guy back because the fast cars always have been fun to watch but few in numbers .

 

[Bent6]

This is about like pissing into the wind but here goes anyway..................

First of all, I ain't no newbie or Johnny come lately. I've paid my dues and been there and done that over the years. It saddens me to see some of the crap that goes on in these forums - the egos, attitudes, and poor advice given by some who don't have a clue what they are talking about. I have been in the Buick community longer than most - since back before the TRs hit the scene. I joined the GSCA back in the mid 80s - my roots are from the big block Buick days but my interest changed to the TRs when they came out. Needless to say I've seen a lot of change in my 25+ years of involvement.

Issue #1: Age of cars and demographics
Let's face it, the GS cars are now 40 years old and the TRs are approaching 25 years old. There weren't many made to begin with. A lot of the cars have been thru multiple owners and violated in more ways than one can imagine. A lot of people have just moved on to other things, quit, gotten too old, lost interest, whatever. The GS cars got smothered out by the TRs years ago. A lot of vendors have come and gone - some have simply moved on. Hard to make it limiting yourself to Buicks only.

Issue #2: Too many stinking classes
Heads up racing has been the death of more than one organization due to the fact that it's always driven by MONEY. We have too many classes and a lot of them have gotten out of reach for the average Joes. Not everyone has the ability, the means, or the desire to build a 10 sec car. I can't think of one class in recent years it doesn't take a low 11 to high 10 sec car to be competitive. I'm all for going fast but the fact is that a lot of people have just gotten left behind.

Issue #3: The classes that are out there have too many rules
Personally, I've never purposely built a car for any of the Buick classes because the rules are so limiting that you can't have a car that's competitive outside of the Buick world. I for one want to be able to compete with my cars in other events - there is life outside of the Buick world. The rules in most of the classes seem to be like a moving target anyway.

Issue #4: Too many events
I remember when BG was IT. I'll be the first to admit that the powers that govern the GSCA have an agenda but like it or not BG is still THE event of the year. I remember the days of Buicks at Bristol. This is where it all started with events more or less competing with each other. This community is simply too small to support multiple events per year because most people either can't afford or simply don't have the time to run all over the country attending Buick events. I would rather see one or maybe even two BIG Buick events like BG was back in the day than multiple events with marginal attendance.

My .02 as far as solutions?

Combine the events. If these event's keep competing against each other the end will be sooner than later.

The heads up classes need to be indexed. This would make for some tight and exciting racing while keeping any one or two racers from running away with the class. Most of the people I see balking at the idea don't seem to know how it even works. It's NOT bracket racing. I ran with a local group for a while called the Dixie Door Slammers. It's a group of racers that run on an index agreed upon by the racers. Tracks would pay our group to come put on a show for the fans. You can run as fast as you want in qualifying with no penalty - you just have to run the index during eliminations.

By using an index, we could do away with a lot of the silly little rules that proliferate most of the heads up classes. Who cares if you have a 88mm turbo if you are running a class racing on a 10.30 index? Who cares if you have a S2 engine running an 11.50 index. Etc, etc. This would in no way limit performance of the cars and would open up the rules to allow a lot more cars to be eligible.

We need to stop segregating the V6 and V8 cars. Let the cars be Buick bodied or Buick powered. Combine it all and have classes something like Street Stock on 12.50 index. Hot Street on and 11.50 index. Street Eliminator on a 10.50 index. Street Modified on a 9.50 index. Street Outlaw with something like a 7.90 index. You get the idea. We could still have a King of the Hill or Big Gun shootout for the heavy hitters.

I know none of this is likely to ever happen. This is one of the reasons I have chosen to build my new car the way I want it and not worry about conforming to the Buick world's self-imposed restrictions. It may never be at a Buick event since it's not Buick powered - that in itself is sad. I can't believe I've wasted this much of my life typing all of this but I love these cars and this hobby and I certainly hate to see it all go away. Hopefully everyone can pull together, check the egos, attitudes, and agendas at the door and try to make some compromises for the better of the community.

Peace ya'll.......................:biggrin:

 

[Rebel]

What about a BOP(Buick Olds Pont)Each one has A and G boddies.Friendly competition amongst the groups What about 2 bracket classes 9.99 and faster and 10.00 and slower.Then the event people find 16 cars as close as they can to each other and have a heads up race pinks style.No one would know until the event started what class would be in the spotlight.Just a thought,heads up and lots of rules doesn"t seem to be working

Kevin

Racing at Hebron seemed to be like pulling teeth. Car show was the main event. We sat in line for a pre-modanna for 1/2 hour that didn't even bother knowing when his class was racing. For me, get serious bout racing, otherwise I'll spend my 500 dollars in fuel at an Ocean Front Condo