State of the Buick Community: What to keep it from dying? Please check it out???

[scot w.]

This is about like pissing into the wind but here goes anyway..................

First of all, I ain't no newbie or Johnny come lately. I've paid my dues and been there and done that over the years. It saddens me to see some of the crap that goes on in these forums - the egos, attitudes, and poor advice given by some who don't have a clue what they are talking about. I have been in the Buick community longer than most - since back before the TRs hit the scene. I joined the GSCA back in the mid 80s - my roots are from the big block Buick days but my interest changed to the TRs when they came out. Needless to say I've seen a lot of change in my 25+ years of involvement.

Issue #1: Age of cars and demographics
Let's face it, the GS cars are now 40 years old and the TRs are approaching 25 years old. There weren't many made to begin with. A lot of the cars have been thru multiple owners and violated in more ways than one can imagine. A lot of people have just moved on to other things, quit, gotten too old, lost interest, whatever. The GS cars got smothered out by the TRs years ago. A lot of vendors have come and gone - some have simply moved on. Hard to make it limiting yourself to Buicks only.

Issue #2: Too many stinking classes
Heads up racing has been the death of more than one organization due to the fact that it's always driven by MONEY. We have too many classes and a lot of them have gotten out of reach for the average Joes. Not everyone has the ability, the means, or the desire to build a 10 sec car. I can't think of one class in recent years it doesn't take a low 11 to high 10 sec car to be competitive. I'm all for going fast but the fact is that a lot of people have just gotten left behind.

Issue #3: The classes that are out there have too many rules
Personally, I've never purposely built a car for any of the Buick classes because the rules are so limiting that you can't have a car that's competitive outside of the Buick world. I for one want to be able to compete with my cars in other events - there is life outside of the Buick world. The rules in most of the classes seem to be like a moving target anyway.

Issue #4: Too many events
I remember when BG was IT. I'll be the first to admit that the powers that govern the GSCA have an agenda but like it or not BG is still THE event of the year. I remember the days of Buicks at Bristol. This is where it all started with events more or less competing with each other. This community is simply too small to support multiple events per year because most people either can't afford or simply don't have the time to run all over the country attending Buick events. I would rather see one or maybe even two BIG Buick events like BG was back in the day than multiple events with marginal attendance.

My .02 as far as solutions?

Combine the events. If these event's keep competing against each other the end will be sooner than later.

The heads up classes need to be indexed. This would make for some tight and exciting racing while keeping any one or two racers from running away with the class. Most of the people I see balking at the idea don't seem to know how it even works. It's NOT bracket racing. I ran with a local group for a while called the Dixie Door Slammers. It's a group of racers that run on an index agreed upon by the racers. Tracks would pay our group to come put on a show for the fans. You can run as fast as you want in qualifying with no penalty - you just have to run the index during eliminations.

By using an index, we could do away with a lot of the silly little rules that proliferate most of the heads up classes. Who cares if you have a 88mm turbo if you are running a class racing on a 10.30 index? Who cares if you have a S2 engine running an 11.50 index. Etc, etc. This would in no way limit performance of the cars and would open up the rules to allow a lot more cars to be eligible.

We need to stop segregating the V6 and V8 cars. Let the cars be Buick bodied or Buick powered. Combine it all and have classes something like Street Stock on 12.50 index. Hot Street on and 11.50 index. Street Eliminator on a 10.50 index. Street Modified on a 9.50 index. Street Outlaw with something like a 7.90 index. You get the idea. We could still have a King of the Hill or Big Gun shootout for the heavy hitters.

I know none of this is likely to ever happen. This is one of the reasons I have chosen to build my new car the way I want it and not worry about conforming to the Buick world's self-imposed restrictions. It may never be at a Buick event since it's not Buick powered - that in itself is sad. I can't believe I've wasted this much of my life typing all of this but I love these cars and this hobby and I certainly hate to see it all go away. Hopefully everyone can pull together, check the egos, attitudes, and agendas at the door and try to make some compromises for the better of the community.

Peace ya'll.......................:biggrin:

Very well said Will !!! That couldn't have been said any better..

Scot W.

 

[charlief1]

Hell yea!!!

This is about like pissing into the wind but here goes anyway..................

First of all, I ain't no newbie or Johnny come lately. I've paid my dues and been there and done that over the years. It saddens me to see some of the crap that goes on in these forums - the egos, attitudes, and poor advice given by some who don't have a clue what they are talking about. I have been in the Buick community longer than most - since back before the TRs hit the scene. I joined the GSCA back in the mid 80s - my roots are from the big block Buick days but my interest changed to the TRs when they came out. Needless to say I've seen a lot of change in my 25+ years of involvement.

Issue #1: Age of cars and demographics
Let's face it, the GS cars are now 40 years old and the TRs are approaching 25 years old. There weren't many made to begin with. A lot of the cars have been thru multiple owners and violated in more ways than one can imagine. A lot of people have just moved on to other things, quit, gotten too old, lost interest, whatever. The GS cars got smothered out by the TRs years ago. A lot of vendors have come and gone - some have simply moved on. Hard to make it limiting yourself to Buicks only.

Issue #2: Too many stinking classes
Heads up racing has been the death of more than one organization due to the fact that it's always driven by MONEY. We have too many classes and a lot of them have gotten out of reach for the average Joes. Not everyone has the ability, the means, or the desire to build a 10 sec car. I can't think of one class in recent years it doesn't take a low 11 to high 10 sec car to be competitive. I'm all for going fast but the fact is that a lot of people have just gotten left behind.

Issue #3: The classes that are out there have too many rules
Personally, I've never purposely built a car for any of the Buick classes because the rules are so limiting that you can't have a car that's competitive outside of the Buick world. I for one want to be able to compete with my cars in other events - there is life outside of the Buick world. The rules in most of the classes seem to be like a moving target anyway.

Issue #4: Too many events
I remember when BG was IT. I'll be the first to admit that the powers that govern the GSCA have an agenda but like it or not BG is still THE event of the year. I remember the days of Buicks at Bristol. This is where it all started with events more or less competing with each other. This community is simply too small to support multiple events per year because most people either can't afford or simply don't have the time to run all over the country attending Buick events. I would rather see one or maybe even two BIG Buick events like BG was back in the day than multiple events with marginal attendance.

My .02 as far as solutions?

Combine the events. If these event's keep competing against each other the end will be sooner than later.

The heads up classes need to be indexed. This would make for some tight and exciting racing while keeping any one or two racers from running away with the class. Most of the people I see balking at the idea don't seem to know how it even works. It's NOT bracket racing. I ran with a local group for a while called the Dixie Door Slammers. It's a group of racers that run on an index agreed upon by the racers. Tracks would pay our group to come put on a show for the fans. You can run as fast as you want in qualifying with no penalty - you just have to run the index during eliminations.

By using an index, we could do away with a lot of the silly little rules that proliferate most of the heads up classes. Who cares if you have a 88mm turbo if you are running a class racing on a 10.30 index? Who cares if you have a S2 engine running an 11.50 index. Etc, etc. This would in no way limit performance of the cars and would open up the rules to allow a lot more cars to be eligible.

We need to stop segregating the V6 and V8 cars. Let the cars be Buick bodied or Buick powered. Combine it all and have classes something like Street Stock on 12.50 index. Hot Street on and 11.50 index. Street Eliminator on a 10.50 index. Street Modified on a 9.50 index. Street Outlaw with something like a 7.90 index. You get the idea. We could still have a King of the Hill or Big Gun shootout for the heavy hitters.

I know none of this is likely to ever happen. This is one of the reasons I have chosen to build my new car the way I want it and not worry about conforming to the Buick world's self-imposed restrictions. It may never be at a Buick event since it's not Buick powered - that in itself is sad. I can't believe I've wasted this much of my life typing all of this but I love these cars and this hobby and I certainly hate to see it all go away. Hopefully everyone can pull together, check the egos, attitudes, and agendas at the door and try to make some compromises for the better of the community.

Peace ya'll.......................:biggrin:

Very well said Will !!! That couldn't have been said any better..

Scot W.

I totally agree. It isn't about what kind of car or engine, it's about racing. Remove the restrictions and you'll get more participation from the general public. I love the Buick engines and body designs but if the numbers aren't there to make it a worth while event then you need to open it up some. The numbers just aint there any more so open it up for more people.:smile:

 

[Tiretoter]

I dont know what its going to take to get the hobby back on track. Supporting the TB.Com Nats is a good place to start. Shane is not in this to make money like Richard Lassiter is. Everything that guy does is motivated by money. Shane is motivated by his love for the cars. You can rest assured that the day the GS Nats is no longer profitable, they will cease to exist.

Do you work for nothing??? I didnt think so. So you must be motivated by money as well. Imagine that! I see you are the "Site Administrator", is this site here out of the kindness of someones heart??? From the advertising seen here, I think not. So are you saying this site is motivated by money also? I think I already know your answer, so dont bother. Do the vendors that attend any of the Buick events do so without the intent of making money from the Buick community? The answer is a resounding NO, so I guess they are motivated by money as well. If not, guess what.......THEY WILL "CEASE TO EXIST"!!!!!

So why in the hell would you post something so ignorant like you did above? Dude, money makes the world go round, in case you didnt know. The GS Nats has been around for thirty some odd years. And since you dont already know, this is due to two reasons.

1.) The people that go to the event enjoy it, it has value to them, and they want to go back.
2.) The event is occasionally profitable.

If it werent profitable, would you have hung in there thru thick and thin for 30 years like Lassiter?? Dont bother, I already know the answer.

Here is a piece of advice. Think before you type from now on. Dont be part of the problem.

 

[JayC]

Do you work for nothing??? I didnt think so. So you must be motivated by money as well. Imagine that! I see you are the "Site Administrator", is this site here out of the kindness of someones heart??? From the advertising seen here, I think not. So are you saying this site is motivated by money also? I think I already know your answer, so dont bother. Do the vendors that attend any of the Buick events do so without the intent of making money from the Buick community? The answer is a resounding NO, so I guess they are motivated by money as well. If not, guess what.......THEY WILL "CEASE TO EXIST"!!!!!

So why in the hell would you post something so ignorant like you did above? Dude, money makes the world go round, in case you didnt know. The GS Nats has been around for thirty some odd years. And since you dont already know, this is due to two reasons.

1.) The people that go to the event enjoy it, it has value to them, and they want to go back.
2.) The event is occasionally profitable.

If it werent profitable, would you have hung in there thru thick and thin for 30 years like Lassiter?? Dont bother, I already know the answer.

Here is a piece of advice. Think before you type from now on. Dont be part of the problem.

Hi Richard. Glad to see you could get out of the Reclino-Dyno and make a post.

There is a difference between being profitable and sticking it up people's asses. The GS Nats is plain and simple a money grab by Richard Lassiter. Beings that you didnt register until 2004, maybe you werent around when the "Its all about the money at the GS Nationals" signs were posted all up and down the road before you get to the track?

The point I was trying to make, Richard, is that Shane cares about this hobby and the cars. The TB.Com Nats as far as I know have never turned a profit. Why do you think the Buicks at Bristol event went away? It never turned a profit either.

The bottom line is there needs to be less events. That would bolster the car count. All this heads up racing talk isnt going to do a damn thing for car count because if youre not racing, you dont care about those classes. Too manychoices and too small a demographic is what all this boils down to.

 

[Tiretoter]

Another thing that alot to do with car count is the payouts. I've said it before, guy is not going to drag his car cross country for a $150 payout.
Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Supposedly the BPG had very good payouts this year, and guys STILL didnt drag their cars out. I tend to agree with Sean Ryder on the payouts issue in that nice payouts dont do much for car count at a Buick event.

 

[Tiretoter]

Hi Richard. Glad to see you could get out of the Reclino-Dyno and make a post.

There is a difference between being profitable and sticking it up people's asses. The GS Nats is plain and simple a money grab by Richard Lassiter. Beings that you didnt register until 2004, maybe you werent around when the "Its all about the money at the GS Nationals" signs were posted all up and down the road before you get to the track?

The point I was trying to make, Richard, is that Shane cares about this hobby and the cars. The TB.Com Nats as far as I know have never turned a profit. Why do you think the Buicks at Bristol event went away? It never turned a profit either.

The bottom line is there needs to be less events. That would bolster the car count. All this heads up racing talk isnt going to do a damn thing for car count because if youre not racing, you dont care about those classes. Too manychoices and too small a demographic is what all this boils down to.

WRONG....now you really look ignorant. If your only point was about Shane, then why did you have to drag the GSCA thru the mud? Maybe that was your real point all along?

Trust me, I have been around Buicks since you were sh!tting green pudding into your hands and rubbing it in your face. I would think a "Site Administrator" would be more diplomatic with his words, and not sound so self serving. Again, be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

 

[JayC]

WRONG....now you really look ignorant.

Trust me, I have been around Buicks since you were sh!tting green pudding into your hands and rubbing it in your face. I would think a "Site Administrator" would be more democratic with his words, and not sound so self serving. Again, be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Okay.. whatever dude. Dont worry about my position. Its not my job to be politically correct and I really don't give a crap what you think. I keep the place running, Im not Mr Rogers.

You must be pretty old if you've been around Buicks that long. Miss your Geritol this morning, homie?

 

[SGRIM]

WRONG....now you really look ignorant.

Trust me, I have been around Buicks since you were sh!tting green pudding into your hands and rubbing it in your face. I would think a "Site Administrator" would be more democratic with his words, and not sound so self serving. Again, be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Stop the pissing match....


According to your logic you obviously are "ignorant" too then... Jay has been around these cars from DAY 1. NO ONE has been around them longer except the cats at Buick...

Back on target,

 

[JayC]

Stop the pissing match....


According to your logic you obviously are "ignorant" too then... Jay has been around these cars from DAY 1. NO ONE has been around them longer except the cats at Buick...

Back on target,

Its all good, Shane. If he's been around that long, he's one of those bitter GS guys. You shoulda seen how pissy those guys were the first year the turbo cars showed up at the Nats.

 

[Tiretoter]

Stop the pissing match....


According to your logic you obviously are "ignorant" too then... Jay has been around these cars from DAY 1. NO ONE has been around them longer except the cats at Buick...

Back on target,

1987 wasnt Day 1.

 

[SGRIM]

1987 wasnt Day 1.

Did I say it was

Oh, I get it...

Okay I am referring to the turbo cars... I embrace the V8 guys with open arms but I assumed since we are on "TURBObuick.com" we were discussing TURBO Buicks....

 

[JayC]

1987 wasnt Day 1.

Im going to go work on some stuff thats broken on the board. First tho, I wanted to give you a peace offering. I put you together a GS Nats survival kit. Come find me at the next event and Ill give it to you in person.

 

[Tiretoter]

Okay.. whatever dude. Dont worry about my position. Its not my job to be politically correct and I really don't give a crap what you think. I keep the place running, Im not Mr Rogers.

You must be pretty old if you've been around Buicks that long. Miss your Geritol this morning, homie?

Trust me Jay, I aint Lassiter, but I aint a jack leg internet jockey either. I have seen lots of guys like you come and go in this community over the years. You knew that what you typed was incendiary, that was your whole point all along. Makes you look negative and self serving, and certainly not part of the solution. Using your "administrator" post here on this site to undermine the GS Nationals and libel Ricard Lassiter sends the wrong message. You would be better served promoting your site and your event of choice, not making yourself look bad by degrading other events that many of your forum members attend, support and enjoy.

 

[Tiretoter]

Did I say it was
QUOTE]

Yes you did. Jay said he has been into Buicks since 1987, and YOU said he has been around since DAY 1. Turbo Buicks had nothing to do with my statement. I like V8 Buicks and Turbo Buicks equally.

 

[Tiretoter]

Im going to go work on some stuff thats broken on the board. First tho, I wanted to give you a peace offering. I put you together a GS Nats survival kit. Come find me at the next event and Ill give it to you in person.
QUOTE]

That is so cute Jay, real cutting edge comedy you got there.

Tell ya what, I will be in BG at the GS Nationals in October. Why dont you look me up and give it to me in person. I'm not hard to find.

 

[Bent6]

This is a great example of over half of the problem.

Attitudes and egos are the reason nothing ever changes.

 

[Tiretoter]

This is a great example of over half of the problem.

Attitudes and egos are the reason nothing ever changes.

Will, I couldnt agree with you more. This discussion was going great just like many others in the past on this same topic, only to be disrupted by someone who wants to start a flame war by dragging down the event or person he doesnt like for whatever personal reason.

BTW, cant wait to see the 70 GS you have planned hit the track.

 

[SGRIM]

What are you the protector of the Buick world? 84 posts here. What else have you contributed to the Buick world?

No ego here... I just get tired or people acting like they are like Mr. Richard Clark when they don't contribute anything but lip service...


If you look you replied AFTER WILL so you the one that "started" it...

 

[Tiretoter]

What are you the protector of the Buick world? 84 posts here. What else have you contributed to the Buick world?

Good lord, you think post count on this site has anything to do with the contributions anyone makes to the Buick world? Does Richard Clark post on this site? Does he have 13,784 posts? Truthfully, I doubt he has the time to waste on 13,784 posts. Am I supoposed to think someone with 13,784 posts on this site has made a significant contribution to the Buick community other than "lip service"? 13,784 posts is a LOT of lip service if you ask me.

No ego here... I just get tired or people acting like they are like Mr. Richard Clark when they don't contribute anything but lip service...

How could you possibly know what contributions I have made to Buick events?

If you look you replied AFTER WILL so you the one that "started" it...

After Will? Will has nothing to do with this! I simply RESPONDED to Jay's negative post about Richard Lassiter. His post had no reason to be included here, nothing productive was going to come from it. Jay turned the conversation sour with his negative view. Too bad too, this discussion was heading in a productive direction until he threw his two cents into the mix. Why you cant allow yourself to admit what you already know is beyond me.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Well,

This thread has certainly deteriorated to rubbish....