Status

[turbov6joe]

I've been gone for a while and havn't posted here for who knows how long. Anyhow, for those that knew I lost my motor in BG the damage was 2 roached main bearings on the center two. I have the block out getting checked for flatness, new Durabond cam bearings, and some trick oiling for the thrust surface which also had some minor wearing from what I have no idea. Unless it was the cam I lost the lobes on and trashed last winter with just 50 miles of running time, I can't tell ya where the wear came from??? Anyhow, with any luck I should have the motor up and running by mid August sometime. The cam I had in it was fine as were the rod bearings....looks like some HG material got into those 2 main bearings and took them out. I'm hoping to have it ready and have made some passes before Noble, OK. in October. If the first pass of BG is any indication of what the car is capable of, I should be very happy once I get a chance to sort things out. I'll keep you all posted as things progress.

 

[89ICBM]

Joe,

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and probably draw a lot of rebutle but I think it's something you should consider. The 2 middle mains are the weak link and if you lost them you also bowed the crank. My point here is, don't re-use the crank, get a new one, preferably an Eagle. Also, at least get the billet steel main caps for the middle 2.

 

[Razor]

I disagree on the center mains. As it is too critical and too easy for a machine shop to make a mess. Especially with the registers. The girdle is far easier, and less of an issue to install.

I too loss my motor at BG. The thrust went on the crank from converter issues. A new motor is getting built as well. Girdle is going on mine.

Joe, did the mains spin or they just coppered? If they spun.. be triple careful. Crank can be checked for straightness, and roundness.

What bearings did you decide on? I'm going with the Kings. And did the ARP bolts on the rods, girdle, and doing the speedpro rings.

Post back, great to see ya lurking around.

 

[turbov6joe]

The bearings were starting to get into deep copper which left just a slight transfer on the crank. This didn't look like a bent crank...I've seen those before and the damage tends to be more. This IMO was a prime example of shiot in the oil which just so happened to take out the bearings that bear the brunt of the load under WOT....hence why the others didn't look bad at all. I opted for the kings also and went with the Durabond cam. I also wanted to do a girdle but the overall cost of the project put that idea out....I'm just a po under paid cop ya know The crank in being tunred .010 on the mains and a polish on the rods as well at being checked for straghtness and round....should be done any day now. The block looked great as did the jugs which are being left alone. I'm trying the Cometic .060 head gaskets, studding the mains, and reusing the SPS rod bolts. The only thing that bothered me some was the wear on the thrust surface of the block....can't finger out where it came from It almost looked like something that was machined from the factory! Anyhow, I should be up and running sometime mid August I hope.

 

[89ICBM]

I disagree on the center mains. As it is too critical and too easy for a machine shop to make a mess. Especially with the registers. The girdle is far easier, and less of an issue to install.

I too loss my motor at BG. The thrust went on the crank from converter issues. A new motor is getting built as well. Girdle is going on mine.

Joe, did the mains spin or they just coppered? If they spun.. be triple careful. Crank can be checked for straightness, and roundness.



HA!OK! Clarification needed here.

Julio, what did you not understand about the term "At least"? And, I did not say 'bent crank' I said "bowed" as in flex. These cranks have a 'memory', when they bow or flex, they return to original shape, just weaker. Once this bow occurs, it happens the second time with less stress than the first time and so on until the crank finally breaks.

Joe, I read that you wiped a cam previous to this problem. Did you discard the oil cooler when that happened? If not, there's the source of the oil contamination. Now, let me pose this question to both of you;

There's 4 main bearings, all four have the same clearances and are lubricated by the same 'contaminated' oil along with the rod bearings and all the journals. What changed the clearances on the two center bearing that allowed them to wipe/wear?

 

[Razor]

One thing of note is earlier in the year Joe did pull the motor and freshened it up. SO it is possible correct clearances may have not been set/shiofted when the bearings were swapped.

Early last year my old motor was pulled and I left the bearings alone.. that one hasnt had any issues.

Detonation can kill bearings, clearances too tight can kill bearings, trash in the oil can kill bearings, man you out of luck can kill bearings.. its part of racing an engine sometimes.

But I agree with Joe on the crank, the motor has too little miles for this to be an issue.

Frank, our stock cranks are "wirey" whereas they flex alot.. that is why some say they can handle a lot of abuse. Unlike a steel crank which doesnt have give. And the oil between the surface of the crank and bearing is what keeps it from hitting. But too little clearance, or too much.. we have problems.

I did the durabonds also, and ordered another 212/212 flat tappet for this one. The other motor i'll do roller. As you say.. got to keep budgets Lastly.. Jason at RJC will machine the caps for 100.00, get the girdle on it, and then check the line bore.. all you need then is a simple line hone and its done. Sometimes the line hone isnt done cuase it aint needed..

I'm going to try and modify the oil pan for the crossmember clearance.. and give that a whirl. I dont want to move the motor up any higher.. hell the 70 MM TB is already hitting the hood liner. I'll see how that goes.

 

[Jicaju]

Did you remove the oil cooler when that happened? If not, ere's the source for the contamination. Does'nt the oil pass through the oil cooler first then through the filter? The reason I ask is I'm debating wether or not to put the oil cooler back on my new engine. And thanks turbovjoe for the wheels they looked pretty good.

 

[turbov6joe]

Actually I think it was my boss quad holly fuel injectors that wiped the bearings out...better yet, maybe it was my flux capacitors or muffler bearings??? WTF, who knows....it's all about racing....wanna play...gotta pay! At any rate I poke with the machine shop yesterday, it should be done pretty soon. Now if I could just be home when the UPS guy shows up and get my headgaskets I'd be in great shape!!! Ya know Julio, since I got fast Eddy Brewer here in KC I should have him modify my oil pan.

 

[Razor]

Ya know Julio, since I got fast Eddy Brewer here in KC I should have him modify my oil pan.

Would be triple cool if someone stepped up and made modded oil pans for our dilema.

What originally was stopping me from the girdle was the thought of having to buy the poly mounts which moved the engine up even higher.. let alone the $$$ for those things.. ouch.

When I get mine done, i'll take some pixs..

Economics of the girdle,
400 for the girdle
100 to machine the caps
125 for line hone

650.00 approx.

Now the oil pan....

 

[turbov6joe]

Being able to buy an oil pan already set up for the girdle would be sweet! I'm with ya on the polly issues....just the cost of the things plus all of the other expenses put the idea way over my budget. Oh well, I'll keep the boost at 25 psi or lower, the KR in the very low single digits, and the RPM under 6000 to keep this motor alive for a while. Today I spent ~6 hours porting my lower intake....you should have seen how much aluminum was on the ground by the time I finished. If nothing else maybe the porting will equal out the flow some??? Hell, the amount of overcast and slag probably made up 50% of the debris on the floor. One of these days I'll pick up a larger TB and a Hemco to top off the upper part of the motor. I need a good billet FP regulator, know of anyone that has one for sale?

 

[Razor]

On the FPR.. nope.. theyre like 100 bucks from the vendors for a new one. And i'd be concerned with a used one.. never know if the previous owner had water in the fuel.. or ???

Good job on the porting .. I sent my caps out to RJC today to get machined.

Wish I would of know you wanted a Hemco.. I practically gave one away that came with the 70 MM TB I have.

Yesterday I ran into a guy locally that fabs SS headers, intakes, etc.. actually he came to buy a kit for his TT 240 Skyline :biggrin: nothing like 650 RWHP on 2700 lbs. Had a pair of GT35R turbo's.. inline 6.

He's anxious to work on the pan.. we'll see how it comes out.. and if duplicatable.. probably have him make me 3.

On an off topic.. looking at that engine bay first thing out of my mouth.. "Man a Buick 6 would look sweet in there" :biggrin:

Then I started thinking.. wonder if he can twin turbo the TTA

TTYL

 

[turbov6joe]

Practically gave a Hemco away huh....Day late and a $1 short....that's the story of my life I got the intake ported and put back together...looks good! The crank is done and turned out great. The block should be done soon. I have all the parts ready to go and the engine bay cleaned up real nice. Now if those ****'n Cometics would get here I'd be ready to assemble once the block is done What an abortion that has been....never had such a hard time getting gaskets. First vendor #1 didn't have them in stock and didn't call me to tell me this until I had been waiting over a week. Then the vendor they were dealing with sends them out UPS signature required....never could hook up with the UPS chick due to my crazy work schedule. Then UPS sends them back to vendor #2 because of a "failed to deliver 3rd attempt." So after a few phone calls vendor #2 says they will send them back when they get them back....no signature required this time I told them Then to add absolute insult to injury I get my CC statement yesterday and see that Vendor #1 hit me up twice for the set of gaskets. So yet another call to Vendor #1 to get my $$$ credited back....holy hell this experience has sucked! I'll be sure glas when the motor is up and running...I may never take it back to the track for fear of having to go through this again. Better yet, I may sell the thing and buy one of he next cars on my "plan to own" list: 1988 Porsche turbo, TT Supra (auto), Syclone, or a ZR1 vette.

 

[Razor]

Ya know you can sign the slip and leave it on the door? :tongue:

Patience.... triple check the crank clearances.

 

[83ttypecooled]

Hi,
After reading your posts, Razor and Turbojoe, it occurred to me that racing is not what I want to do with my car. You guys go and have your fun, I'll just putt around blowing off the occasional ricer who gets in my hair. Good luck,keep the good tech stuff coming!

 

[Razor]

Hi,
After reading your posts, Razor and Turbojoe, it occurred to me that racing is not what I want to do with my car. You guys go and have your fun, I'll just putt around blowing off the occasional ricer who gets in my hair. Good luck,keep the good tech stuff coming!

This is what happens when you start chasing the numbers. Believe it or not, I enjoy building the motor and working on the car.. so if i'm racing the car i'm spending money on racing the car. If i'm building the motor,, money goes to that. Money will always find its way to my hobby.. and thats making it faster.

When everything is fresh and you work on it, you hardly get dirty.

There is a far greater sense of accomplishment building something and making it srceam, to latter take it apart and do it over again.

Update.. pistons/rods ready, crank is ready, cam, chain, rings, bearings, gaskets, etc.. done.. caps and line hone are all I need.. and it goes back in.

Early Sept is my target.

 

[turbov6joe]

Update on my ride is as follows:
Machinist called and I need a very light line bore (.005) and the two center caps were slightly bent (says he was able to fix them). The crank is done and looks GREAT. I FINALLY got my Cometics yesterday, man those HG's are 100% bad ass tough!! This machinist I'm using is some local 74 year old dude that's been building high end race motors since Moses was walking the earth. This guy is so anal about every detail I know everything will be perfect or not done at all, so that's conforting. What really blows my mind is that GM has all these specs for the LC2 and it seems that even my 16,000 mile motor is not within specs on many things??? Some OE motors you here about are too loose, others too tight...what gives was there no QC on the assembly line? At any rate the motor is soposed to be done by the 22nd, so it looks as though the September "up and running" idea might still be on albeit any roadblocks that come along. What's your opinions guys, is a new standard size Cloyes double roller timing chain going to be too loose with a .005 line bore? Anyone know what other sizes they offer?

 

[turbov6joe]

I got the call late today saying the motor is done and ready for pick up. Seems the old cat decided to do a bunch of other things to make the rotating assembly 110% perfect....a lot more $$$ than I thought but it will be worth every penny! I hope to have it reassembled by the weekend and ready to drop in....who knows, maybe even running by the weekend
It really pisses me how bad a LOW mile motor could be SO out of spec from the factory, did GM have any quality control back then? At any rate it's done and that's what I'm happy about. With any luck I'll have some good miles on it and be at the track two Fridays from now. Anyone think 125mph with a stock intercooler is possible?

 

[Razor]

Anyone think 125mph with a stock intercooler is possible?

Most definetely. Congrats... getting there. Get some EOS for break in.

My caps arrived today from RJC, be assembling the shortblock this weekend and getting the line hone done next week.. I cant wait either

 

[turbov6joe]

I spent 10 hours yesterday putting the motor back together, checking/verifying tolerances and cleaning crap along the way...looks good. All I have left to do is put the new mini starter on, prime the oil pump, and throw the cam sensor back in. Hopefully I can talk my neighbor into coming over Saturday to help me drop it back onto the motor mounts....worst part about this process!

Can anyone shoot a picture of the hard water lines going to the oil cooler or explain to me where they hook up....damn motor has been apart SO long I forgot where they go

Wish me luck, I hope to have it running Saturday evening/night.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

We kinda joined on a few threads there Joe-
Call me tomorrow after 10am, i know how the coolant lines run to the oil cooler, should be fairly easy if you have them shooting the correct way.
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