Steel Main Cap Problem

[marred4life]

well petesgn and i were getting started on the short block last night and ran into a small problem, one of the center main caps does not line up with the bearing guide, im running the correct bearing for this block so dont know what happened, i believe i was sent the wrong center cap, now heres the problem everything is machined already so it would really suck for me to call the supporting vendor and tell him he sent me the wrong cap and needs to pay for the machine work on that single cap, maybe theres a bearing out there that could probably fit this cap, any help is appreciated. heres some pix, first picture is the stock and steel center main side by side the last picture is the original main cap with the bearing installed so i know its not the bearing thats wrong

 

[marred4life]

heres a picture of the bearings part number

 

[XxDarkSidexX]

Yea heard about that ziggy, that sucks.

Thank god for peps like petesgn que no? Him along with the other og's, are really the only thing keeping me here. I hope it all works out for you playa.

XxDarkSidexX

 

[turbolou]

Reply

I have recently run into this same problem It's a manufacturing screw up. What happened is the locating groove got machined wrong. What needs to be done is have the groove relocated. Not a problem if done correctly by a competent machinist. I also hope your not running a Chinese crank & not know about some of the other surprises in store. Also check for correct crank end play as the main cap holes may have to be honed to correct that problem. It's the assemblers responsibility to deal with these issues.The vendor only sells the part he didn't build it. That's what you will be told. Not fair to be sure. But this is an example of what your paying for by having an experienced Buick builder do it for you. One slip or mistake can cost you dearly. My hat's off to you for trying it yourself because when your through you will have a better understanding of how we earn our money. Sincerely overpriced Lou

 

[PHILBUILT65]

amen lou its a hard life in the repair world!!!! i have seen this in other brands as well they use the same blank for both caps but cut the register for the thrust on a non thrust cap !!! it will work if you cut the locator tang.
phil k

 

[counterman]

Yep, mine too. I just clearanced the steel cap enough to clear the bearing tang with the insert in the right spot. So far, no problem. Counterman.

 

[marred4life]

I have recently run into this same problem It's a manufacturing screw up. What happened is the locating groove got machined wrong. What needs to be done is have the groove relocated. Not a problem if done correctly by a competent machinist. I also hope your not running a Chinese crank & not know about some of the other surprises in store. Also check for correct crank end play as the main cap holes may have to be honed to correct that problem. It's the assemblers responsibility to deal with these issues.The vendor only sells the part he didn't build it. That's what you will be told. Not fair to be sure. But this is an example of what your paying for by having an experienced Buick builder do it for you. One slip or mistake can cost you dearly. My hat's off to you for trying it yourself because when your through you will have a better understanding of how we earn our money. Sincerely overpriced Lou

ive been dealing with these cars for about 4yrs now and know that when it comes to internal parts not to deal with chines crap, i bought these caps from FULLTHROTTLESPEED.COM and have bought many other parts from them, the crank is stock cut .10 under and the machine work was done by JMS RACING ENGINES in el monte so saving a dime or two is not a issue right now, as far as being overpriced well thats on other people to say so i havent done business with you other than a bracket i bought from you years ago, i appreciate the help lou and will contact the machine shop tomorrow. this is the first time ill be getting into a short block and im grateful to have petesgn helping me, big thumbs up pete!!

 

[S2V6RACER]

Why didn't the machinist check to see the cap was right before he installed it?

I do not feel the vendor is responsible, mistakes happen and the machinist is the professional and he should see to it the part fit. It didn't.

 

[Grumpy]

Why didn't the machinist check to see the cap was right before he installed it?.

x2 ... he should have caught that

 

[marred4life]

x2 ... he should have caught that

thanks ill call them tomorrow

 

[KWIKR 1]

I would talk to a good machine shop . I maybe wrong but I've heard of people actually remove the bearing tangs on the bearings on some chevy builds for proper fitment. That's the thrust bearing ,correct ? the way they usually fit in the cap the bearing is going no where once the cap is installed and torqued .

 

[Gary Wells]

well petesgn and i were getting started on the short block last night and ran into a small problem, one of the center main caps does not line up with the bearing guide, im running the correct bearing for this block so dont know what happened, i believe i was sent the wrong center cap, now heres the problem everything is machined already so it would really suck for me to call the supporting vendor and tell him he sent me the wrong cap and needs to pay for the machine work on that single cap, maybe theres a bearing out there that could probably fit this cap, any help is appreciated. heres some pix, first picture is the stock and steel center main side by side the last picture is the original main cap with the bearing installed so i know its not the bearing thats wrong

Ziggy:
I am sorry for your misfortune on this, but I think that you should as a minimum let Mike & / or Marianne Licht @ Full Throttle Speed & Style know about this so they can consider some means of preventing it from happening again to their business and / or another customer.
As far as FTS&S having any cupability because they supplied a part that later had some machine work performed on it may not be your best recourse on this matter. An approach of can you guys help rather than finger pointing might work better, but that is just a thought. I hope that this gets settled to your's and all involved parties satisfaction. Mike and Marianne, just like Lou, are good people and they will help if they can, just as Lou would / will if he can. HTH

 

[turbolou]

Reply

ive been dealing with these cars for about 4yrs now and know that when it comes to internal parts not to deal with chines crap, i bought these caps from FULLTHROTTLESPEED.COM and have bought many other parts from them, the crank is stock cut .10 under and the machine work was done by JMS RACING ENGINES in el monte so saving a dime or two is not a issue right now, as far as being overpriced well thats on other people to say so i havent done business with you other than a bracket i bought from you years ago, i appreciate the help lou and will contact the machine shop tomorrow. this is the first time ill be getting into a short block and im grateful to have petesgn helping me, big thumbs up pete!!

My reply to you I hope wasn't taken out of context.Simply to use this example to make a point & as a reference to try & defend past misconceptions of what was said about buiders & vendors. I actually admire someone who is willing to take a chance & learn. If your using a stock crank & it has been turned I hope you had it nitrided as when material is removed, So is the Rockwell hardness & an early bearing failure is almost guarantied. Observe the chatter marks on the stock center caps which is common on an engine that has been run hard. That should give one an idea of the stresses involved. Probably a good argument in favour of a girdle. Even though they are an expensive hassle to set up. I'm not a big fan of them only if needed. But if the your running the engine hard enough that the caps are walking that bad It would be a good idea or back off on the boost.

 

[Mike Licht]

Sometines I wish people would call us with problems so we can solve them I hate to read about them on the internet before I know about them. I spoke to the cap guys and it ca easily be taken care of. If you would like to call me I can make it happen. Thanks for the "help" Lou.
Mike

 

[turbolou]

Reply

Sometines I wish people would call us with problems so we can solve them I hate to read about them on the internet before I know about them. I spoke to the cap guys and it ca easily be taken care of. If you would like to call me I can make it happen. Thanks for the "help" Lou.
Mike

Mike don't get discouraged by some of this B.S. there's many of us that appreciate the effort that you put into keeping this hobby going. Say hello to your wife Marianne for me. Lou

 

[TURBOELKY]

things happen. A mistake in the caps machining would'nt stop me from buying them, but know to check em out before they are line bored.

 

[turbolou]

Reply

things happen. A mistake in the caps machining would'nt stop me from buying them, but know to check em out before they are line bored.[/QUOTE
]When you install steel main caps the only thing you can be sure of is not breaking one .That does nothing in the way of longevity insurance for the rest of the engine. In fact if installed wrong could be a detriment. 109 blocks are a weak piece through out. Stage II blocks weren't made in heaven either. If you want reliability go to SBC or exercise common sense with right foot. I know I will ruffle feathers by stating this. But watch this thread come alive . lol

 

[marred4life]

Sometines I wish people would call us with problems so we can solve them I hate to read about them on the internet before I know about them. I spoke to the cap guys and it ca easily be taken care of. If you would like to call me I can make it happen. Thanks for the "help" Lou.
Mike

please excuse my statement on my first posti was just heated from not being able to built the short block, ive bought alot of parts from you and will continue to buy parts, im actually gonna purchase your roller cam kit in a couple months.

 

[marred4life]

well i went to the machine shop yesterday morning and got a call couple minutes ago that the cap is ready, ill pick it up thursday and continue the build on saturday, thanks again for the help i really appreciate it.

 

[blown okie]

I have recently run into this same problem It's a manufacturing screw up. What happened is the locating groove got machined wrong. What needs to be done is have the groove relocated. Not a problem if done correctly by a competent machinist. I also hope your not running a Chinese crank & not know about some of the other surprises in store. Also check for correct crank end play as the main cap holes may have to be honed to correct that problem. It's the assemblers responsibility to deal with these issues.The vendor only sells the part he didn't build it. That's what you will be told. Not fair to be sure. But this is an example of what your paying for by having an experienced Buick builder do it for you. One slip or mistake can cost you dearly. My hat's off to you for trying it yourself because when your through you will have a better understanding of how we earn our money. Sincerely overpriced Lou

amen lou its a hard life in the repair world!!!! i have seen this in other brands as well they use the same blank for both caps but cut the register for the thrust on a non thrust cap !!! it will work if you cut the locator tang.
phil k

Why didn't the machinist check to see the cap was right before he installed it?

I do not feel the vendor is responsible, mistakes happen and the machinist is the professional and he should see to it the part fit. It didn't.

x2 ... he should have caught that

Sometines I wish people would call us with problems so we can solve them I hate to read about them on the internet before I know about them. I spoke to the cap guys and it ca easily be taken care of. If you would like to call me I can make it happen. Thanks for the "help" Lou.
Mike

was the machinist even taken the bearings to be able to catch this..people the like to point fingers should usually point them up their ass just my $.02