Steel Main Cap Problem

[KWIKR 1]

The quickest and easiest fix for all involved would have been to file the tab off the bearing, I wish I would have seen this sooner.

I mentioned that way back , but no one paid any attention to it .

 

[750H.P.V6]

You're right you did. It probably got overlooked when people were getting worked up about things.

Neal

 

[BetMinesFaster]

I have got one of these mismachined caps in my hand as well, No concern at this point, Mike Licht is a stand up guy and I have no doubts this will be corrected, However unimportant the tab is on the thrust bearing I do not want to file it, I would prefer the cap is replaced or corrected, Im certain Mike will do this, and I will be spending many thousands more with Mike by april or so....Thanks Mike for a great website and great prices...You have my buisness, Ryan

 

[marred4life]

ok so the bottom ends built now, thanks again for the help guys, and heres a picture of the build

 

[chris718]

This post is not meant as a means of starting a war on this forum however I would never omit the locating tab on the bearing.The opposing bearing with the tab can spin 180 degrees in the mains.The thrust bearing is not keyed to the outer edge of the cap.Relying on bearing crush to locate a bearing is foolish.Why dont we just file off both tabs and see how long the bearing stays in place and how long the motor lives.Anyone whos replaced bearings in the vehicle or with the crank not removed can understand what im getting at.

 

[BetMinesFaster]

+1

This post is not meant as a means of starting a war on this forum however I would never omit the locating tab on the bearing.The opposing bearing with the tab can spin 180 degrees in the mains.The thrust bearing is not keyed to the outer edge of the cap.Relying on bearing crush to locate a bearing is foolish.Why dont we just file off both tabs and see how long the bearing stays in place and how long the motor lives.Anyone whos replaced bearings in the vehicle or with the crank not removed can understand what im getting at.

Hell yes!

 

[joe_schindler]

Let us fools unite!

Anyone that thinks the little tang on a bearing is going to keep it from spinning better think again.

How many bearings have spun that had the tang on them? It wasn't the lack of locating tang that caused them to spin; it was an increase of friction; caused by something that would spin the bearing regardless of tang or not.

I'm sure all of you non-fools have your micrometers out now and are doing the math to see just what "crush" you have on your bearings. What; you don't have a set of mic's?

I'm sorry; but this is going to require some higher math adding and subtracting.

Joe Fool

 

[KWIKR 1]

Engine Builder's Handbook ... - Google Book Search


Express Parts

 

[chris718]

I Have 5 Cnc Machines So Im Very Versed In How To Read A Micrometer.the Tang Obviously Isnt The Only Factor,bearing Crush Loads The Bearing Into Its Saddle For Proper Roundness And Fit And To A Certain Percent Aid In Retention.name One Engine Produced By Gm In The Last 35 Years That Doesnt Use The Tangs And You Have An Argument.the Tang Is There To Retain The Bearing In The Block And Keep It From Moving As Well As Seated Squarely In The Bore.lets Grind Off Both Tabs And See What Happens.i Dont Think Anyone That Has Spent Money On An Engine Is Going To Be Willing To Take A Chance.main Bearing Failure Is Usually Caused By Overloading,oil Contamination,lack Of Oil,improper Maching/clearancing .why Introduce Another Chance At A Part That Lives In A Rough Environment As It Is.

 

[EightSecV6]

When Ford started using aluminum blocks in the Cobra Mustang in 1996, they used a different bearing than the iron blocks used (tab on brg located different). It took a couple years for the aftermarket to produce a high performance bearing for the aluminum block. We had no choice but to buy bearings for the iron block and file the tabs off both sides prior to assembly. I built several high HP supercharged modular engines using this method as well with no issues (7000 rpm plus!). When we convert on center Buick rods to off center narrow journal rods, we follow the same procedure. The bearing tab locates the bearing in the saddle for assembly and that is all. That little tab on the bearing will do absolutely nothing to prevent it from spinning. Bearing crush it the ONLY thing that keeps the bearing in its place.

 

[turbofabricator]

When Ford started using aluminum blocks in the Cobra Mustang in 1996, they used a different bearing than the iron blocks used (tab on brg located different). It took a couple years for the aftermarket to produce a high performance bearing for the aluminum block. We had no choice but to buy bearings for the iron block and file the tabs off both sides prior to assembly. I built several high HP supercharged modular engines using this method as well with no issues (7000 rpm plus!). When we convert on center Buick rods to off center narrow journal rods, we follow the same procedure. The bearing tab locates the bearing in the saddle for assembly and that is all. That little tab on the bearing will do absolutely nothing to prevent it from spinning. Bearing crush it the ONLY thing that keeps the bearing in its place.

Well said, Bill. Remember folks, the tabs are there for ease of assembly. They only take 30 seconds to assemble a short block at GM. 30 SECONDS, NOT minutes. There are many things on a car that are there ONLY for production time reduction. When you build 1,800 engines a day at the factory, one second of time savings is worth modifying the part to help, even if it does NOTHING for the function of the engine. We all have to consider that when building race cars. "Why did GM (or Ford......) do that?" Many times it was just to make assembly faster by the folks building them. The guys and gals at the factory are NOT precision engine builders. ('cept for the LS-7 guys).

 

[turbolou]

Reply

Overpriced Lou, (the turbo buick god)

Why don't you give this guy some real advice; like Anderson did?

(Middlemen have almost fully been eliminated; since you are lingering in the past here.....)

It;s odd that one would be asking for help from the same sort of middleman that marred4life was seeking to avoid. So not to be out done I hereby recommend leaving the main cap off completely from what I'm reading it's probably not necessary if the car never makes it out of the driveway anyway.

 

[Jack Armstrong]

I mentioned that way back ,

but no one paid any attention to it .

It's very easy for posts

to get lost in the midst of

all the 4-8" long "signatures".

 

[hboost]

It;s odd that one would be asking for help from the same sort of middleman that marred4life was seeking to avoid. So not to be out done I hereby recommend leaving the main cap off completely from what I'm reading it's probably not necessary if the car never makes it out of the driveway anyway.

These comments really don't help your business Lou; remember, you're not the only vendor available.

 

[hboost]

You get what you pay for! Also I don't think Lou's overpriced for the time and TLC he puts into his work.

I hope everything get resolved with the cap problem Mike

Brent, you are an anomaly to this whole equation, so I think your comments on Lou's work are very bias. This guy has no customer service skills, maybe with you and a few other exceptions he's a top notch tuner, but with most other people he's an overpriced assh*le....

 

[cruzn57]

speaking of a$$holes

not to wander off this thread, but I, and numerous others find your opinion totally worthless, you think Brent is biased?? look in the mirror!
Lou has as much knowledge as anyone in the buick world, but he doesn't tolerate stupidity.:wink:
Lou has helped more people over the years than you can imagine, but you wouldn't care about that, he has finally reached a point that he will tell you when your obnoxious, and if he won't , I will!!
and......... YOUR OBNOXIOUS!!!!!!!
you have an opinion, fine, but keep it to your self, especially when it irritates old farts like me, and causes me to have to take my heart meds, LOL

cruzn57

 

[turbolou]

Reply

These comments really don't help your business Lou; remember, you're not the only vendor available.

You mean free advise.I don't serve at anyones pleasure but my own. Guys like you that have never spent a dime with me don't deserve my support & have a lot of nerve to expect any. true I have my own loyal customers that I take very good care of.If some of the other vendors feel a need to help guys like you for no other reason than to stroke egos .I say go for it. I would like to have an open debate on how smart it is to give all this hard earned knowledge away for free. What do we have to sell but our experience & time.I bet you count every dime coming to you on your pay check.You see we don't have that luxury.So when some jerk off like you demands vendor support & don't even have the courtesy to call & introduce himself or at least be civil. This is the kind of response you can respect from me.

 

[chris718]

I guess youve proved to me that it works Bill but without anything to locate the bearing in the cap how do you line it upfrom left to right in its bore?How do you stop a first timer from placing the bearing in the wrong position if there are no tabs?I believe the 4.6 has outer lips that locate on the blocks.Is that correct?It would be very(with a 3.8) easy to install the lower bearings in the top and vice versa.

 

[hboost]

You mean free advise.I don't serve at anyones pleasure but my own. Guys like you that have never spent a dime with me don't deserve my support & have a lot of nerve to expect any. true I have my own loyal customers that I take very good care of.If some of the other vendors feel a need to help guys like you for no other reason than to stroke egos .I say go for it. I would like to have an open debate on how smart it is to give all this hard earned knowledge away for free. What do we have to sell but our experience & time.I bet you count every dime coming to you on your pay check.You see we don't have that luxury.So when some jerk off like you demands vendor support & don't even have the courtesy to call & introduce himself or at least be civil. This is the kind of response you can respect from me.

I've been to your shop, introduced myself and my buddy who I recommend your shop to, and you acted like an ass. We were civil, you weren't. All you wanted to do is buy our big turbo, big injectors, and sell us Brent's old stuff. You couldn't even tell that car was running like crap due to a leaking head gasket. I would'nt EVER need your sorry support or respect when it comes to anything so let's just leave that alone.

By the way, the main cap problem is fixed.

 

[EightSecV6]

I guess youve proved to me that it works Bill but without anything to locate the bearing in the cap how do you line it upfrom left to right in its bore?How do you stop a first timer from placing the bearing in the wrong position if there are no tabs?I believe the 4.6 has outer lips that locate on the blocks.Is that correct?It would be very(with a 3.8) easy to install the lower bearings in the top and vice versa.

Chris,
Dont take my post the wrong way, some may not be comfortable filing the tabs off, I personally dont see a problem with it. The bearing should be installed in the center of the saddle,if you get it incorrect the chamfer on the brg could get in the way of the crank radius.The modular Ford thrust does come in pieces. I suppose it would be easy to mix the uppers and lowers if you were not paying attention but the uppers have the oil holes and the lowers do not.