TA Performance Headers vs KB Headers?

[Flyin Brian]

Well I guess i didn't get what I paid for ....my flanges broke off the header and the crossover after about 50 passes and also found the header cracked.They fit nice but pretty disappointed in the quality.I have a set of Postons on my spare engine and thinking of changing them out.
Ive always had good luck with TA stuff even bought a bunch off them for my Nailhead .I have no experience with KB didn't know they still made stuff .YES THESE ARE THE HIGH DOLLAR ONES
CROSSOVER FLANGE
View attachment 265470
HEADER FLANGE
View attachment 265471
HEADER CRACK
View attachment 265472
ON CAR
View attachment 265486

DAMN! I hope that is not happening to mine! I can't believe stainless rusted out that fast. I know they are just 304 and that 304 will rust easily in the right environment but I would not think they would go that quick.
My old set of ATR's appear to be 316 and are a normal amount of ugly but not heavily corroded like that. They are heavily cracked however. Almost any header for these cars will eventually crack with repeated heat cycles and time.
I don't know if anyone still makes them out of 316 stainless?

To get to the 9's you will most likely pass through the 12's, the 11's, and the 10's first. I would stick with the stock headers as long as I could if they were in good shape and save my money for the other things that are going to arise on your journey to the 9's. Just my opinion.

 

[The Granny]

To the OP are you talking about original KBs or the new kb-styles? because they are 2 different things..

The new KB style, the ones I could buy brand new from GN1

 

[sackracing]

The new KB style, the ones I could buy brand new from GN1

Those look just like atr

 

[The Granny]

Those look just like atr

From what I'm seeing and have read a little bit on here, the KB headers have a longer driver side collector than ATR's. And the ones on GN1 do have the long collector.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/atr-headers.393223/

KB Headers:
http://www.gn1performance.com/prodimages/large/Headers-1.jpg

ATR Headers:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/image-jpg.185946/

If I'm wrong just let me know, I'm still pretty new here but i do want to learn as much as possible. The look doesn't necessarily matter to me, I'm looking for direction as to which ones are most frequently used/preferred/suggested by the community for a racing application, with goals like mine.

 

[sackracing]

Since finding ATR headers is not an easy task, I would try the GN1 KB style. But keep in mind that not just any downpipe is going to work with them.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

I bought a set of Kenne Bell back in 2005. I never had any issues with these headers they work worked great. I had them on a car when it was a 12 second car. The OEM headers needed replaced because of the typical cracking issue. I replaced them with a custom set from KB.

I continued to use them when I built the TSM engine. Add that point EGT bungs were added to them and the cross over pipe was slightly modified by Jack Cottons son when they built me a custom 3.5" down pipe and added stuff for the xternal waste gate. The cross over pipe was brought closer to the engine so the down pipe would have more clearnce where the two pipes got close to each other.

These headers saw over 17o0 egt's on a reglar bassis and a massive amount of low nine second passes. (9.2'S).

The flanges were never modified on these headers and never neaded attention. All the welds held up. I was always real happy with them. I was always extremely pleased with how well they cleared the stearing shaft.

These headers are still running strong on that car and the new owner recently finished drag week this year with those headers still on the car.

reall hard for me to say anything bad about those KB headers. I give them a thumbs up. These were the stainless steel ones. When I bough these i think he offered a less expensive set made from cheaper material.

 

[The Granny]

Since finding ATR headers is not an easy task, I would try the GN1 KB style. But keep in mind that not just any downpipe is going to work with them.

Thank you, I've got someone offering $500 + shipping for a pair of ATR headers, so I think I'll try to close the deal up on that pretty quick. Thank you all!!

 

[sackracing]

I would grab them for 500

 

[tbone87]

If you're talking about the KB headers on GN1 site, they look just like ATR headers to me.

We sell custom headers with 1 5/8 primaries, but they require a custom downpipe and are way more than 1000 bucks.

Pretty sure they are if like my gn1 se headers only difference was longer collector on one side and cross over shorter. I'm running a 3.5" Terry Huston and fit well. Also flanges are ss too.

 

[rodruckus]

My old set of ATR's appear to be 316?

I have a couple of old ATR catalogs, they made their headers and exhaust components out of T304 stainless. You guys that are saying your T304 is rusted/corroded, who or where did you buy it from? Maybe it's not true T304, chinese T304?

I have this old ATR dual 3" exhaust system that was sitting in a outside shed for 10+ years, that I recently dug out, and it doesn't have a single speck of rust on it.

 

[sackracing]

The flanges on my atr headers are mild steel

And the tubes are welded all the way around the flange.

 

[Flyin Brian]

My old set of ATR's appear to be 316?

I have a couple of old ATR catalogs, they made their headers and exhaust components out of T304 stainless. You guys that are saying your T304 is rusted/corroded, who or where did you buy it from? Maybe it's not true T304, chinese T304?

I have this old ATR dual 3" exhaust system that was sitting in a outside shed for 10+ years, that I recently dug out, and it doesn't have a single speck of rust on it.

You can put a magnet on it as a general check. Typically 316 stainless is completely non-magnetic and 304 stainless is anywhere from very slightly to very magnetic. The metallurgy of the Chinese 304 is not as good as real 304. Chinese 304 that we get at work rarely passes PMI.

I have that same ATR dual exhaust on my car minus the mufflers and it looks just as good. The exhaust has a much easier life than the headers however because they never see the same temperatures as the headers.

 

[DarthBuick]

As others have said not as many downpipes will fit. It also makes for a tight fit. I have Kenne Bell headers and it was a pain to keep downpipe from rubbing.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Good info above, just want to clarify your above statement in regards to magnetism.

True T304 has around 20% chromium and 10% nickel content in the alloy, and ssometimes it will be very slightly magnetic (not completley magnetic). T 316 has a higher nickel content which pretty much makes it always non magnetic.

In my opinion t304 is a great appliction for exhaust components, but if you are working with an application that demands non magnetic, 316 should be specified.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

View attachment 265544

View attachment 265545
The flanges on my atr headers are mild steel

And the tubes are welded all the way around the flange.

The shapes shown on these headers resemble what my Kenne Bell headers looked like. The two pipes into the turbo flange are very distinctive. cylinders 2,4 & 6 feed into the turbo and the cross over pipe hooks up right next to those outlet's. The other design doesnt seperate each side of the engine. In the other design the cross over pipe feeds into the log that is fed by cylinders 2, 4, & 6.

 

[BobbyBuick]

DAMN! I hope that is not happening to mine! I can't believe stainless rusted out that fast. I know they are just 304 and that 304 will rust easily in the right environment but I would not think they would go that quick.
My old set of ATR's appear to be 316 and are a normal amount of ugly but not heavily corroded like that. They are heavily cracked however. Almost any header for these cars will eventually crack with repeated heat cycles and time.
I don't know if anyone still makes them out of 316 stainless?

To get to the 9's you will most likely pass through the 12's, the 11's, and the 10's first. I would stick with the stock headers as long as I could if they were in good shape and save my money for the other things that are going to arise on your journey to the 9's. Just my opinion.

These are the Stainless Headers.However the flanges are not Stainless they look to be a mild or cast steel .the weld broke on both the header and the crossover on the right side .so far the left sde is still intact. Just Noticed The ad says the last set of headers you will ever buy http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_V2010CH-SS

 

[Mr.Spool]

I run the ta performance stainless race headers. never been off the car since I put them on years ago thousands of street miles and lots of passes.best set of headers I have used so far.

 

[fastblackracing]

These are the Stainless Headers.However the flanges are not Stainless they look to be a mild or cast steel .the weld broke on both the header and the crossover on the right side .so far the left sde is still intact. Just Noticed The ad says the last set of headers you will ever buy http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_V2010CH-SS

Bobby,did you send pics to T/A to see what they say about this?.....pretty sure tti exhaust was making these TA headers when I got mine in 2009....I have the same ones as you and am pulling the engine this weekend and will be checking those joints very close.......I also have a brand new set of atr's I bought at bowling green around 2003 0r so that I have been on the fence about selling, out of concerns like yours.....

 

[jpwalt1987]

Bobby,did you send pics to T/A to see what they say about this?.....pretty sure tti exhaust was making these TA headers when I got mine in 2009....I have the same ones as you and am pulling the engine this weekend and will be checking those joints very close.......I also have a brand new set of atr's I bought at bowling green around 2003 0r so that I have been on the fence about selling, out of concerns like yours.....

PM sent.

 

[horndog]

I have the TA performance stock replacements and they are a lot beefier than stock. Stock headers are very thin, and I can see why they crack so often.
Whomever crack a set of TA stock replacements probably installed them wrong. You do not get clearance issues like the GN1 KB or other versions. They install very easy and quickly even if you never done it. They are also $749 not $1100 which are the race version. The race version is not necessary for 95% of the cars out there.