The Numbers Game with the (SPI) Trunk ID Label - Kirban

[usetaboost]

Yes it is a solid roof car.

I am surprised non of the buick vendors have began repopping the 87 delete plates. Or any year of radio delete plate for that matter. Last time I saw one for sale it was 300 bucks! That's a lot of money for not having a radio

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

here is the problem making an exact reproduction of the Buick radio delete plate.

It says Buick on it. That means it has to be GM licensed....that means GM gets so much money each year and determines how it is produced and packaged. One reason you see $50 Corvette shirts they have the GM license paid tag attached to them. Anything with their logo or wording requires a GM license.

While its true smaller vendors that stay under the radar may get away with it others like myself are not so lucky. GM has come after us several times as has BMW. You can't do a t shirt unless you gave it away free......You could do an art print of someones car and sell the one to the car owner, but if you made copies then it has to be licensed by GM.

what makes even less sense to companies like myself, now is we own part of GM as a tax payer....and besides they have not used these logos etc in 20 plus years and it helps keep people interested in their cars...

Its a fine line....

Writing books is a little different that is why it says in books we recognize such as such as logos etc belonging to....such and such. Look on various websites most Mustang vendors now state since they have the word Mustang in their name have to state not associated with Ford Mustang.

Mustang is a fine line as their are horses called mustangs, even cigarettes. We make a running pony decal, Ford has licensed the running pony so we altered the leg movement and the tail but if you think about it how does one license an anmal in motion?

Corvette people have gone even to a further extreme. Notice on the national level when they refer to the Survivor™ class they have a trademark symbol by the word survivor. No other car club can legally use that term "survivor" in writing relating to cars.

Gets stranger every day....

One reason we can't reproduce legally the sunvisor decal....has the power six on it...stay small and under the radar no issues....years ago this was not a problem.

Your rite $300 for a delete plate may be better spent buying a nice am/fm CD player for the "hole".

I don't claim to know all the laws, but am famailar with what I have discussed in this post.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

So, to answer your question $300 for an original may seem high, but to reproduce it wait around for GM to approve it, and approve the box it goes in, and pay them and try and sell more than say 100 your cost factor may be $50 to $75 each....or more......

 

[usetaboost]

Ok how 'bout this. Reproduce the plates WITHOUT the word BUICK on it, and keep the spot on the plate blank. Sell individual letters B,K,C,I,U and some other letters of the alphabet with sticky on the back and we can put the letters on ourselves:biggrin:

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Ok how 'bout this. Reproduce the plates WITHOUT the word BUICK on it, and keep the spot on the plate blank. Sell individual letters B,K,C,I,U and some other letters of the alphabet with sticky on the back and we can put the letters on ourselves:biggrin:

kirban 2 cents worth

Interesting concept however that does not fly either. Companies that make Corvette and Mustang parts have tried that.....look at the back ends of any of them cars they have individual impressions on the bumper covers that allows letters to be dropped in....I agree its a grey area and I am sure companies under the radar for any make car do it.

Your method would not produce a exact reproduction since originally it was all silk screened or printed or whatever....plus the fact, you would not sell many making it a poor investment for any company.

As you know a source has just made the grille and headlite bezels both great items needed on many cars yet it will take a looong time to recoup his investment.

Our company has done just a few minor items the billet crinkled finish horn center to replace the poorly designed plastic collar that Buick did. We did the grille springs, amazing we did that cheaper than GM sells them for and even supply them painted black so they don't rust the 2nd day. (First day for New England owners)

Its a game of numbers......The GNX style rims...trust me the company that did them based on the trans am wheel did it for their main market Pontiac Trans Am and by making zero offset have captured a secondary market the G body Regals.

Plenty of examples exist.....

Best bet keep looking for the delete plate I wish I still had the ones I sold for $50 each.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Been at the reproduction game since 1980.....

 

[groumoutis]

No the molding is gone and there are not any floor mats. The power antenna has been replaced and does work. The antenna might as well not work since the guy who had the car before me ruined the factory dash/door speaker plug that goes into the stereo. If any one else has this plug that is in good shape I am interested in purchasing it. Other than the radio and cruise control everything else works.

 

[usetaboost]

I find it hard to believe those plates aren't floating around more often. NEVER see them for sale unless they want a crazy amount for them. Hell I'd even buy a used one for 50 bucks.

Even though what I described would be correct, it would still be a nicer looking piece than what is available at the moment and if it could be a decent price I'm sure it would sell. A person could make more letters like N, G, 4, W, E, T, P, Y, A, O, N, L, R, D, get my drift

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

check with gbodyparts.com on the antenna part you seek. Ashame someone butchered it.

People would buy the delete plate just to have it if it was 100% exact.....
But I doubt very much it would be a big seller to make it worth producing.

I have sold the astror roof crank for $100 in the envelope which is on the same par as being rare like the delete plate....now that crank could easily be made.

Again neither item would generate enough sales unless someone who made them owned the shop they were made in keeping costs down.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

No answers on the trivia question as of yet.....may have to let salvage V6 and Phone Guy back in the game....

 

[salvageV6]

" My 1987 salesmans directory shows D68 mirror option at $83 or on a WE2 (Gn) it was $30. Not sure why numbers don't match what you where quoted. "


Dennis, I got the information off the window sticker. :biggrin:

Since the painted dual mirrors were STANDARD on the WE4 according to the window sticker, the cost of making the passenger remote I guess was only the $30.

Here's the sticker.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

The 1987 salesmans price directory shows it was printed 9 of 1986.....so, obviousily they made changes a long the way in some of the price structure as you have noted by your window sticker. Plus the astroroof...you got the hand crank in the envelope with it?

Be really weird to see a WE4 with chrome mirrors...you got the big buck radio and twil lite sentinel option....don't see that in many WE4s the twil lite feature....

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Re-read your window sticker top portion says standard equipment WAS chrome mirrors unless replaced by optional equipment something I pointed out in an earlier post. Does not state they were painted at least not in the top section of your window sticker you posted...its in the last column under horns....

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

more backtracking on steering wheels.

The 1986 T-Types had a small plastic T-Type medallion in the center, for 1987 all the Turbo-Ts WE4 etc had just the letter T.

With that in mind and smaller production runs you would think the GN which had larger production run, would have a neat color power 6 (turbo) medallion as the center on the horn instead of the lite shadow grey looking tri-shield logo.

Our steering wheels in various styles were on other Buicks during this time period prior to air bags and in at least one instance the tri-shield horn center was in full color on one of those models. Going one step further the GNX logo design lends it self to a nice horn medallion also which never made it into production for the lucky 547 owners.

Years ago we made a Grand National medallion that fit in the horn center. I am sure other aftermarket versions exist as well.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

While ides are many solutions are few.

 

[salvageV6]

There ain't no real WE4's with chrome mirrors.

Or spoilers, or hood emblems.

Read the WE4 OPTION description, a WE4 is an option, you got the painted black mirrors with it.

And then from there if you wanted remote pass. you paid the $30 for the D68 option, they didn't double dip you for the cost of the black mirror.

Just like a GN would be, painted mirrors were standard in that option package.

All the Regals probably had that stuff up top it's not all that important as what the packages and options list out.

It says deluxe wheel covers too, but of course that was superceded by the T package for the T wheels.

I used the crank out of the envelope after an accident the slider got stuck and I had to close it manually.

Fixed it all with a new actuator motor and still have the crank.

Not sure where the envelope is these days, probably stuck in some paperwork somewhere though.

 

[usetaboost]

You meant header panel emblem right??

 

[salvageV6]

Yup. :biggrin:

Posting without thinking is rarely a good thing.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[54Rich]

Getting back to the contest

Here's my guess and it's a pure guess

First part of the question is: What is your theory (reason) why no one has reproduced numbered plug wires? Obviousily it is cost related so what drives up the cost factor to make them? Two reasons involved.

It's a GM licensing that makes them cost prohibitive to reproduce.

Second part of the question: What is the suggested Ohms for wires 2 feet or less?

What is the suggest Ohms reading for wires over 2 feet in length?

It's 2000 ohms per foot so 4000 or less ohms for these. Book states that any reading above 20K ohms is defective and has to be replaced.


Fortunately I have a Buick book to back up the Ohms numbers. I have a Buick book as well, I bet a different one

 

[streetknight]

Here's mine. Appears to have 80.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

There ain't no real WE4's with chrome mirrors.

Or spoilers, or hood emblems.

Read the WE4 OPTION description, a WE4 is an option, you got the painted black mirrors with it.

And then from there if you wanted remote pass. you paid the $30 for the D68 option, they didn't double dip you for the cost of the black mirror.

Just like a GN would be, painted mirrors were standard in that option package.

All the Regals probably had that stuff up top it's not all that important as what the packages and options list out.

It says deluxe wheel covers too, but of course that was superceded by the T package for the T wheels.

I used the crank out of the envelope after an accident the slider got stuck and I had to close it manually.

Fixed it all with a new actuator motor and still have the crank.

Not sure where the envelope is these days, probably stuck in some paperwork somewhere though.

kirban 2 cents worth

I was simply pointing out what the top section of the window sticker states prior to what gets deleted or listed as an option. nothing to do with the WE4 option list....granted it would have painted mirrors, but we can't dismiss the fluke chance that someone could have screwed up on the mirrors.

I had a bunch of them 15 I think without checking my older post...your rite no spring loaded hood ornament. I did have some original paint ones that did not have regal on the rear quarter panels....does yours?

Those T wheels without any doubt are the toughest to maintain and in most cases previous owners have used the wrong cleaning product that has wiped off any of the rainbow coating they had.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Keep your library books handy....

 

[salvageV6]

I use Muriatic Acid from Home Depot on mine. :biggrin:

Then VHT wheel paint and VHT clear over that.

Lasts 2-3 years.

Got the snows on them and bought Brians at G bodys wifes old powdercoated T wheels too which work well in the winter and are easier to clean up.

Don't use the $$$$ center caps either they wouldn't last long with thieves anyway.

No REGAL emblems, WE4's didn't come with them.

I would think there would be a specific code for them for sure, but we would need to do a base Turbo Regal topic thread to find out.

And perhaps get some input on the codes from the Limited folks I think they have the Regal plates too.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

On your 1986 T-Type...first I have seen this before where no paint code is depicted cross the bottom of the trunk ID label. Not sure if that was on every 1986 trunk ID label no paint code....earlier years have it and 1987s have the paint code on the trunk ID label.

WG1 power drivers seat $225 option. D68 remote left & rite mirrors.



Again some may or some may not since none of us reading this thread can clearly state we have seen every trunk ID label produced.

Your car has the lite weight aluminum bumper supports front and reat VD6 and VD7. If they are steel, they have been replaced according to your trunk ID codes.

Four of you codes one that starts with a 6, 7,8,9 refer to each front spring and each rear spring. VK3 code is on every car free front license plate bracket.

Car has no posi unit unless it has been added aftermarket. Car had or still has black body side molding code B88 and door edge guards B91 codes.

Your got had/has the cheap front and rear floor mats code B32 and B33.

You got FE2 which is suspension system ride & handling .

You got front seat reading lamps C95 code

US7 power antenna my guess is it don;t work unless you replacd it.

They had 6 radios available in 1986 and your car got the high dollar unit UX1 for $494.00/

Owner spent even more money got concert sound II UW4 another $95.

T63 code headlite on buzzer big $16 option there.
A90 and AU3 trunk release power door locks..

You got a well optioned 1986 T-Type. Plus since you posted photos in another thread it is a rare color combo in 1986 which makes it difficult to find correct color interior parts. With the posi option only being $95 seems strange buyer did not spring for it since they invested so much in some of the other optons such as the radio etc.

I believe the exterior color of your car is brown code 62 which was only available on 5 of the models that year out of 13 listed.

I believe your interior color is tan code 386 and was available with code 62 the brown exterior. Again going from the photo you posted elsewhere. Obviousily I did not mention every option just most of them.

Whatever your intentions are, the best return on your investment is to keep it stock appearing as possible as you have a very rare color combo. Just my opinion.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

How rare? No one knows but of the 317 (1986-1987 Turbo Regals) I have owned I have only had one brown one a 1987 that was a national winner at the GS nationals prior to me buying it.

Comments welcome any readers feel free to post your trunk ID label. You could have an unusual combination and not be aware of it.

Or you could learn some disturbing news such as having T-Tops and yet no trunk ID code to support that option.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

I use Muriatic Acid from Home Depot on mine. :biggrin:

Then VHT wheel paint and VHT clear over that.

Lasts 2-3 years.

Got the snows on them and bought Brians at G bodys wifes old powdercoated T wheels too which work well in the winter and are easier to clean up.

Don't use the $$$$ center caps either they wouldn't last long with thieves anyway.

No REGAL emblems, WE4's didn't come with them.

I would think there would be a specific code for them for sure, but we would need to do a base Turbo Regal topic thread to find out.

And perhaps get some input on the codes from the Limited folks I think they have the Regal plates too.

kirban 2 cents worth

Yes Limiteds said Regal and had Limited bar plate under it. On the rear quarter panels. While Regal emblems may not have come with WE4s they appear on some of them anyhow. True fact....In error probably but nevertheless I have had them on original paint examples.

Speaking of WE4s, one of the very first prototype reproduction brake bowls from Cardone went on a WE4 that I bought from a car dealer.

All the ones I have had had Buick and SFI emblems on the rear deck lip. I assume yours does also.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

history lesson coming soon....on spark plug wires....one reason they number them so Salvage V6 don't mix them up....kidding....can't see posting funny little faces....

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

History lesson on spark plug wires. A subject I am very well versed on. In the reproduction game of plug wires it originally started with the Corvettes. Back in the 1960s plug wires where dated coded by quarters 1-2-3-4 and the year. They were black nothing special except date coded and had the wording Packard TV R Suppression 2-Q-67....etc...

At the time only one company had permission from Packard to use their wording and get the plug wires made. At the time they were sold for around $100 a set. A lot of money for basic black plug wires for a V8 engine. I am talking round 1980-85 time period.

Because of the extreme costs involved they only did 1 and 3rd quarter of every year Corvette from a certian year to a certain year. I am not exactly sure what years they did but it was about a 12-15 year span.

So your talking 24-30 different print wheels plus you need to run ALOT feet of wires and then you have to cut them to specific lengths depending on the year and engine size. A 327 Vette engine is going to take different lengths than a 396 big block even if both were available in the same year.

Being into GTOs I knew they also used date coded plug wires. I hooked up with a company who happen to be local to us at the time and they got Packards permission at virtually no cost. I knew this Corvette company would jump into the other GM car game once they got wind our company was now going to do the plug wires.

I also knew back in the mid 1980s no GTO owner in the world would pay $100 for wires. Keep in mind I was looking at Chevy and Buick GS models etc as well.

Since wires came out before the actual model year in order to cover the 1964 GTO I did 4th quarter 1963. Going by memory I think I did everything up to 1972.
To keep things simple I had my source do even quarters each year so I would know what wires where my reproduction. So I did about 20-22 different print wheels. Probably cost $1500 or better back then just to do the print wheels and match the font style of the original.

Next I had to find someone with original wires on their cars to match the lengths. Fortunately in the GTO world their is no big and small blocks but subtle changes in the way plug wires were routed from the 389 to the new 400 in 1967. I had the connections to get hold of originals.

I then discovered the same wording was used on Buick GS etc and Olds 442s and even the AMC cars notably the Hurst Scrambler and 390 engines....To do the Buick I worked with a guy I think his name was Dave Kliner out of Wisconsin who restored GS back in the day. We sold them to Year One etc and others...

We hit on a good retail price structure something like $59.95 a set. The GTO sets were the big sellers to the major wholesalers... It was a pain stocking so many different plug wires for each year each car line. I eventually sold that business to a GTO company.

In the early days we expanded the plug wire business since my source had access to the blue wires almost identical to the Ford motorsport wires and we did logo wires for Steeda and Anderson Motorsports. Two big names in Mustang parts. A single logo required just one print wheel and all those 5.0 engines took the same wires. Turned out the ohms in my wires was actually better than Ford Motorsports.

Then I had our source do the plug wires in grey that we market to the turbo Buick owners strictly 1986-1987 style. At the beginning we did do 1984-1985s but lack of demand we ended that. We also had a print wheel done that read bad to the bone and sold them for several years.

Intersting enough my source now resides in North Carolina and does work for several Nascar teams and still makes our grey 1986-1987 Turbo Regal plug wires. He also makes the plug wires for Callaway Corvettes with their name/logo on them. (We get the 6-speed shifters made for Callaway).

So your plug wires you buy from us come from a top notch source. The answer to the trivia question is in the next post. This posts shows you why it can be costly to do if each wire is different in any way it requires a different print wheel. Besides the initial cost of the print wheel a wire company needs to run hundreds or thousands of feet of each print wheel to make it worth their while.

end of story

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

rare yet is the original Turbo Trans Am plug wires. I owned a few and going off memory they said something about 20th anniversary on them and most of the replacement ones from GM did not have that wording. Also, replacement ones for our cars from GM are number 1 not grey, and number 2 are a universal design meaning they are not custom cut to fit properly. Remember GM is not in the resto business, but the parts replacement business!