The Numbers Game with the (SPI) Trunk ID Label - Kirban

[JOHNDEEREGN]

On the t-top inventor, my google search came up with a guy named Gordon Buehrig who patented it in 1951.

T-top - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I cheated

I did that as well on the History Channel site but it came back as a Dusenberg

Kevin is a cheater LOL

These threads are great Dennis.... keep us guessing:biggrin:

 

[reggie44]

CDN Buick Turbo Regal Production #'s...

Hmmm...interesting question Dennis, let me ask my buddy tommorrow as we talk every day. I think it may be possible to get this info but it may take a lot of searching through Microfiche as I believe the productions #'s were all grouped with all regular natuarlly aspirated V6 and V8 Regals as well. Let me do some research and see if it is possibel to come up with this info and accurate #'s.

Castle will like this car a lot...I hope he bought the SS model. A lot of the colors are very similar to original 69 colros from what I have been told and almost identical in a few cases!

 

[reggie44]

9 Hole vs 8 Hole Turbo Regal Hood Insulator Pads...

Dennis and Turbo Buick enthusiasts:

Here's a question I would like to throw out to everyone... as most of us know the original Buick Turbo silk screened hood insulator liners were held onto the hood by 9 plastic retainers. The original 9 hole (other then NOS) Buick Turbo Hood insulator pads I think have been long discontinuted by the General and in it's place have been the reproduction 8 hole pads which do not contain the bottom middle 9th hole near the windshield.

Question: When did the 9 hole Buick Turbo hood insulator pads stop being made/discontinued and why do the reproductions only have 8 holes and not 9? Any expert answer's out there...maybe Richard Clark has a answer or knowledge of this?

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

To the above I am thinking the wrong version (8-hole) probably came out after initial inventory was depleted and a new source may been used to produce it and made the error. I can't believe it wold have been a cost factor to eliminate one hole. Or a new pattern to make the pad was done by another source and in that pattern they forgot to make that hole and the indention area for the hole.

On a side note years ago I had a pad brand new in the GM box and the wording was upside down on the pad. A case of not using a "sighted" employee to stamp the impression. I should have kept it, but I sold it.

Another hint if you reside in the northern climates those hood pads are a favorite target for rodents to set up house and make it their storage area for food.

Good question Jason se if Richard chirps in he an probably tell you the exact date and reason.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Don't know everything but can keep it interesting.....

 

[54Rich]

Unless I'm counting wrong (It's early) 51 codes on my T

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Unless I'm counting wrong (It's early) 51 codes on my T

kirban 2 cents worth

The codes show you are rite, however, the car you list as having is a WE4 yet that code is not present in the label you show. Is this for another car? Or am I just not seeing the WE4 code?

Without reading numbers since its close to my 52 count is there one option that comes to mind that is missing? Like no tilt or no delay or no cruise or no body side molding? Seeing if its something simple and quick without researching anything.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

51 may be the new low end to beat....

 

[54Rich]

kirban 2 cents worth

The codes show you are rite, however, the car you list as having is a WE4 yet that code is not present in the label you show. Is this for another car? Or am I just not seeing the WE4 code?

Without reading numbers since its close to my 52 count is there one option that comes to mind that is missing? Like no tilt or no delay or no cruise or no body side molding? Seeing if its something simple and quick without researching anything.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

51 may be the new low end to beat....

Well, the whole WE4 debate on this car, is I'll never know for sure. It was built before you could get a WE4. WE4 announced in Nov 86, Dealers Guide available in 1/87. My car was built in the last week December 86. It looks exactly llike a WE4 Group K car. If someone changed it over, then they did a very good job, everything was changed. The RPO lists DR3 chrome mirrors, so more than likley it was a black T, loaded with chrome It does have tilt, delay, and cruise.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Well, the whole WE4 debate on this car, is I'll never know for sure. It was built before you could get a WE4. WE4 announced in Nov 86, Dealers Guide available in 1/87. My car was built in the last week December 86. It looks exactly llike a WE4 Group K car. If someone changed it over, then they did a very good job, everything was changed. The RPO lists DR3 chrome mirrors, so more than likley it was a black T, loaded with chrome It does have tilt, delay, and cruise.

kirban 2 cents worth

I assume the vin number of the trunk ID matches vin number on the dash corrrect?

No WO2 code shows up either to verify black out package. Two days prior to Buick annoucing WE4 they issued paper stating you could not order a black Turbo-T with the black out package (Wo2) only the chrome package.

I agree not every WE4 looks the same I have seen some with the hood ornament some without same goes for regal rear quarter emblems, it is almost like the car confused some of the workers building it.

Again I am not making a judgement on your car, but if you could post some photos so I can see them. I assume you got a solid grey interior bucket seat set up?

Ever run a car fax? Reason I ask as these cars suffered a lot of thefts and thieves did some crazy things..One trick was to steal a 1986-1987 change out rear window and remove third brake lite and disguize it as a 1984-1985 model.

Again, curious...post some photos lets see what shows up...


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

owned quite a few even WE4 models

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

On another note I will be posting another question tonite on options to test the readers of this thread. Also now with so much interest I will take different options and point out some things I have discovered that some of you may not realize. I will probably start with the various seat options covering 1984-1987 and see what input I get.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Still looking for 98 and above and perhaps 50-51 or below depending on what the above car checks out to be.

 

[scot w.]

kirban 2 cents worth

I assume the vin number of the trunk ID matches vin number on the dash corrrect?

No WO2 code shows up either to verify black out package. Two days prior to Buick annoucing WE4 they issued paper stating you could not order a black Turbo-T with the black out package (Wo2) only the chrome package.

I agree not every WE4 looks the same I have seen some with the hood ornament some without same goes for regal rear quarter emblems, it is almost like the car confused some of the workers building it.

Again I am not making a judgement on your car, but if you could post some photos so I can see them. I assume you got a solid grey interior bucket seat set up?

Ever run a car fax? Reason I ask as these cars suffered a lot of thefts and thieves did some crazy things..One trick was to steal a 1986-1987 change out rear window and remove third brake lite and disguize it as a 1984-1985 model.

Again, curious...post some photos lets see what shows up...


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

owned quite a few even WE4 models

Hi Rich & Dennis,

Dennis this WE4 car that (54rich) now has used to be owned by Me & DONNIE BROOKS. I had asked you questions comcerning this car back when donnie & I owned it and you did mentioned that GM was alittle confused when it came to the WE4's and that it might be possible for it to be a WE4 without having it on the RPO.

Donnie or I never changed anything on it and when we re-painted the bumpers there was no sign of any chrome!

Scot W.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Hi Rich & Dennis,

Dennis this WE4 car that (54rich) now has used to be owned by Me & DONNIE BROOKS. I had asked you questions comcerning this car back when donnie & I owned it and you did mentioned that GM was alittle confused when it came to the WE4's and that it might be possible for it to be a WE4 without having it on the RPO.

Donnie or I never changed anything on it and when we re-painted the bumpers there was no sign of any chrome!

Scot W.

Kirban 2 cents worth

My first question is, did you buy the car new? Is there a window sticker broadcast sheets from inside the door or under the seat?

Solid grey gut?

Something is weird...

gotta run


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[scot w.]

Kirban 2 cents worth

My first question is, did you buy the car new? Is there a window sticker broadcast sheets from inside the door or under the seat?

Solid grey gut?

Something is weird...

gotta run


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

No we bought it used. It sat for quite a while under a car port and we were constantly after to buy it.
and finally they caved in.

Yes it has the complete grey interior with buckets and ALL signs of the car look exactly like a WE4 should.

Yes the VIN does match the RPO.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

No we bought it used. It sat for quite a while under a car port and we were constantly after to buy it.
and finally they caved in.

Yes it has the complete grey interior with buckets and ALL signs of the car look exactly like a WE4 should.

Yes the VIN does match the RPO.

kirban 2 cents worth

Next step has anyone checked the engine number to see if it matches the sequential portion of the VIN number meaning the numbers after the P in the VIN.

Anyone run a car fax just to see if the car has bounced around?

DR3 code for chrome mirrors is correct but really seeing chrome mirrors on a black car really would stand out as a goof against everything else being black.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying its not possible but with 23 years now passed if indeed neither of you owned it since new, the car raises more questions than it can be answered.

It is hard to believe that if it is a WE4 that code does not appear on the trunk ID label. That is hard to understand as being able to happen.

VINs and trunk lids could have been switched early on. It has perked my curioisity. Any other readers can some lite we welcome any comments.

I like to see photos, but they may or may not shed any clues.

kirbanpeformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

owned a number of turbo regals over the years.

 

[scot w.]

Dennis here are some pic's of when Donnie & I had it. Rich has it looking MUCH nicer now!

I double checked the VIN vs RPO and yes they DO match!

 

[salvageV6]

A WE4 would have a lot more codes for blackout stuff than even WE4 and WO2 which are the ones that standout the most and are the most recognizable.

BXX codes for specific blackout trim.

That car was probably a chrome T black car that someone wanted to make into a GN not a WE4, probably just kept the gray interior in it.

That a GN spoiler on it?

Any cowl tag pictures?

Just my .02 and not knowing anything about it's history and guessing on the internet.

 

[garyk1970]

looks like power door locks, no power windows on the we4 in question??

p.s. my car has 52 rpo codes like donnies'&,dennis'.

 

[usetaboost]

I'm guessing that car is no a we4. no code, rear spoiler. its still a nice car though

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Since the VIN and Trunk ID numbers are a match. Plus it appears no one above has stated they have owned the car since new, my gut thinking is the the trunk ID label and VIN is what the car had when it was built. If the paint code matches on the cowl tag for black it was in all likelihood a black Turbo-T and was converted a number of years ago by one of the pervious owners. It certainily would not be unusual.

I doubt really doubt, GM would have screwed up the trunk ID label so bad as not to list the WO2 black out trim, WE4 option, and top if off with DR3 chrome mirrors.

The funny part or maybe unusual part is the car before anyone made the changes, is it was a pretty unusual car based on 51 codes and chrome mirrors. In other words if the car today matched the 51 codes it would be something unique.

My feeling is, the car has been altered to make it appear like a WE4. Car looks great, don't take this the wrong way, but the DNA (trunk ID label) does not jive with the car. I think most readers would agree with this.

I am guessing but like it was said earlier when it was painted you did not see traces of any other color so chances are good that the paint code on the cowl tag will be for black.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

On a plus side you now hold the lead at the low end of 51 codes. Can any readers hit under that number or above 98 codes?

Keep trying

 

[Dennis Kirban]

looks like power door locks, no power windows on the we4 in question??

p.s. my car has 52 rpo codes like donnies'&,dennis'.

kirban 2 cents worth

In looking at your quote and confirming the car it is unusual to have the optional power door locks and not the power window option. Usually if you wanted that you would also want the factory alarm which was needed with power door locks, but no code on the label shown for the car in question shows the factory theft deterrant.

The door locks was $145 and power windows would be $210. Maybe someday some company with Buicks blessings do a service like they do with Pontiacs. In the Pontiac world, converting 4 barrell GTOs into tri-powers is as common as they get. Heck in that world the con artist have gotten so good they now dupe and paste up the documents meaning a potential buyer of a high dollar tri-power GTO needs to get his own documents FIRST from Pontiac Historical Services to be 100% sure its the real deal.

Again not saying this was any previous owners intention because in all likelihood they probably did it because that was the "look" they wanted.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Getting interesting and still going

 

[buickbert]

i count 75 on my 87 gn


heres a list of mine, notice BD1, B81, and E5Z DELETE

also, whats up with QYH?



AR9- reclining bucket seats
AU3- power door locks
AO1- tinted glass
BD1- rocker panel moulding trim delete
BS1- acoustical insulation pkg
BV8- ornamintation exterior door lock cylinders
BX1- EXTERIOR ORNAMENTATION, FRT END SPL
BY4- I/P NAMEPLATE APPLIQUE “GRAND NATIONAL
B19- STEERING WHEEL HORN CAP EMBLEM
B24- side window reveal mouldings (black)
B34- front carpet savers w/inserts mats
B35- rear carpet savers w/inserts mats
B71- wheel moulding (colored)
B77- ornamentation,exterior moulding w/s reveal (colored)
B79- ornametation,exterior rear end
B81- MOULDING B/S -DELETE
B89- ornamentation, exterior moulding,RR window reveal
B91- exterior moulding, door edge gaurd (colored)
CD4- windsheild wiper system (pulse)
CO1- ORNAMENTATION, EXTR EMBLEM, BODY, VAR
C18- arm and blade WSW
C60- HVAC system,air conditioner frt man controls
D35- mirrors, outside rear view; left remot- right manual
D55- full length operation console
D71- gear driven speedo
E5Z- speedo adapter delete (analog cluster only)
FE3-suspension system (sport)
FFL- FLINT MICHIGAN, FISHER BODY PLANT 1, BOC GMD- ASSEMBLED IN GM OWNED ASSEMBLY PLANT
GU6- axle rear 3.42 ratio
G80- positraction, limited slip
G87- RING GEAR, 8.50 INCH
J41- power front disc, rear drum brake system
J50- power brake system
KO9- 120 amp generator
LC2- gas, sfi, h.o. turbo v6 engine
MW9- 4spd auto trans w/ overdrive 200-r4
MX0- merchandised,trans,auto provisions,O/D
NA5- emissions system,federal, tier 0
NP5- steering wheel (leather wrapped)
N33- steering colum,tilt type
N83- chrome plated 15”
PON- PONTIAC MICHIGAN
QYH- p215/65r15 steel belted white letter radials
TL6- Grille (black)
TL8- ornametation ,exterior,hood, (3.8 SFI TURBO)
TT5- headlamps halogen 4
T43- SPOILER, RR, REAR SPOILER
T47- turbo hood
T83- headlamps,dr, (special)
T93- lamp, tail&stop (special)
TL8- ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MOLDING HOOD (3.8 SFI TURBO)
UQ1- provisions for stereo
US6- PAINTED FIXED RADIO ANTEANNA
UW4- speaker system,6,dual frt dash mtd f/d,dual
UX1- radio; etr am/fm stereo w/ seek/scan+cassette+graphic equalizer+clock
U23-cluster, inst, trim odom
VH6- BUMPER FRT, BLACK
VK3- license plate mounting pkg
VY2-
V73- PLATE INSCRIPTION
WE2- grand national package
YR1- SEAT, FRT CUSTOM
YS1- CUSTOM REAR SEAT TRIM
YT1- BUILD UP DR & QTR
YT9- DOOR AND QUARTER DESIGN (FISHER)
ZR6-
19U- PRIMARY COLOR, EXTR, LAMP BLACK (91)
6YX- FRONT LH SPRING
7YW- FRONT RH SPRING
J47- 2-door regal coupe
8PZ- REAR LH SPRING
82C- TRIM COMBINATION, CLOTH, MED DK GRAY (91)
82I- INTERIOR TRIM, MED DK GRAY (91)
829- SEAT BELT COLOR, MED DK GRAY (91)
9SJ- REAR RH SPRING



CANT FIND ANYWHERE WHAT VY2 AND ZR6 ARE? ANYONE?