The Only 3300 lb. Buick V6 in the 8s using...

[Alky V6]

.... Leo Getz.

[video=youtube;yRP8Tl4BsUQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRP8Tl4BsUQ[/video]

Leo Getz!!! That's it!!! Ha!!! TOO FUNNY!!!
LMAOROTF!!!

 

[KL Mallender]

Goober- Sorry to hear you have nothing to race but you like to talk about it on the Internet. I hope things get better for you Do you ever go to Lapeer dragway or any of the car shows at Kalloway's?

I know, it's a damm shame sometimes not having a "real" race car, but I chase different squirrels in my old age, some people are drawn into the light differently I guess.
It doesen't bother me in the least today, Although I don't "race" Buicks anymore, I still use them to compete, just not in the way you may consider "Racy".
Working on and with Buicks taught me things I most likely never would have given a second glance at previously, for that I am thankfull.
Today in 2011 soon to be 2012, producing usable "Power" from internal combustion is not even a second thought, how the "Fu*k" you can utilise it becomes chin music, because you are gonna get slapped if you don't pay attention to what can really be twisted off a crankahft.
If I were to apply what I know today to a 231 cubic inch V6, I would expect complete drivetrain failure from original equipment produced in the 1980's, from the flexplate rearward. Yesterdays goods are not good for todays capabilities or reaching.
The stupidity of power gets out of hand quickly, once you see that timing advance is NOT in your best interest, you will begin to seek "Why".
Detonation is not a bad thing, it's what all carbon based/chained fuels wish to do(wether you want it to or not) you need to learn how to time it in accordance with crankshaft location.


Kevin.



ps: Leo Getz is a rock star, lol.... OK , a really funny character portrayed by Joe Pesci......still....He's a f**king rock star.

 

[Street Lethal]

Street Lethal. It would be nice if you could widen the bowl areas....

Went back in and opened them up some more. Was cringing because I was anticipating hitting into a water jacket, but luckily there was plenty of room to spare. Throwing some ideas around in terms of camshafts, and I'm considering two that I have had success with in a couple of LT1's that I played around with in the past. The CC-306 or the GM-847. The specs are...;

CC-306 = 230/244 .510"/.540" @ 112
GM-847 = 234/ 242 .539"/.558" @ 112

 

[Alky V6]

Street Lethal. What are your goals for powerband range and redline?

 

[Street Lethal]

Street Lethal. What are your goals for powerband range and redline?

Beehive springs are set to .100" coil clearance w/roller valvetrain. Will be running a 3500 stall speed converter, with a redline of 7200-RPM. T88 is T4 with .96 a/r, and 4" Core IC. Headers aren't anything special though, just hoping they are up to the task...

 

[Alky V6]

For that redline, the cams you're looking at would fit the bill. I would choose the larger of the two.
The exhaust you pictured looks pretty typical for mass produced turbo headers. If you're hoping for a good level of pickup from pulse tuning with those, forget it. Won't happen.

I did some sim work for a fellow that was putting together a turbocharged BBC project awhile back. Does anyone care to guess what sort of pickup was predicted by the sim as to the difference between simple, 'designed for easy fit' turbo headers, and headers designed to take advantage of pressure pulse tuning?

 

[Fryguy]

I did some sim work for a fellow that was putting together a turbocharged BBC project awhile back. Does anyone care to guess what sort of pickup was predicted by the sim as to the difference between simple, 'designed for easy fit' turbo headers, and headers designed to take advantage of pressure pulse tuning?

I'd like to see what the real world difference is! **** that simulator.

 

[Alky V6]

I'd like to see what the real world difference is! **** that simulator.

Contact Steve Kinsler of Kinsler Fuel Injection. He has some real world numbers for you. Or, you could always do a little experimenting yourself and let us know what you find.

 

[Fryguy]

Contact Steve Kinsler of Kinsler Fuel Injection. He has some real world numbers for you. Or, you could always do a little experimenting yourself and let us know what you find.

I wouldn't do that experiment because from what I've seen it doesn't mean much if anything. I've seen some systems with the ugliest looking log style manifolds which perform just fine. My Mustang has run near the top of a what a given turbo will run with nothing but a flipped pair of 1/5th shorty headers designed for a 12 second car.

 

[Alky V6]

I wouldn't do that experiment because from what I've seen it doesn't mean much if anything. I've seen some systems with the ugliest looking log style manifolds which perform just fine. My Mustang has run near the top of a what a given turbo will run with nothing but a flipped pair of 1/5th shorty headers designed for a 12 second car.

Here's the thing. If you think it's just a matter of throwing on some long tube headers, don't waste your time. You'll just make others that know better giddy with the giggle bug.

 

[Fryguy]

Here's the thing. If you think it's just a matter of throwing on some long tube headers, don't waste your time. You'll just make others that know better giddy with the giggle bug.

Here's the thing. You can pat yourself on the back and spout off about a bunch of theory and use big words and try to fool those that are dumb enough to be fooled by it.......but anyone with a brain and real experience can see that you're a clueless fool with a slow car with a stupid combination. I originally assumed that you fooled nobody, but judging by some of these posts, you at least have a goober from Lapeer fooled

 

[Alky V6]

Here's the thing. You can pat yourself on the back and spout off about a bunch of theory and use big words and try to fool those that are dumb enough to be fooled by it.......but anyone with a brain and real experience can see that you're a clueless fool with a slow car with a stupid combination. I originally assumed that you fooled nobody, but judging by some of these posts, you at least have a goober from Lapeer fooled

Yet,... here you are. The cute little town troll glued to this thread like a lap dog. What are you waiting around for?
What is it that keeps you here? Is trolling on this thread the highlight of your day?

 

[Just a Six??]

Ok, do we now start a new thread about who's got a bigger dick? or start posting pictures of their buddies girlfriends?
Kevin.

That goes on with any site, on any topic from the Keyboard Kowboys but more often than not with the car guys.

 

[Street Lethal]

Been reading some of the threads on here about pressure pulse tuning, and now I'm considering scrapping those turbo headers and making another set from scratch. On another topic, what route do most of you guys go to fill in the EGR ports w/the factory cast iron heads? Do you use nickel, or do you braze them...

That goes on with any site, on any topic from the Keyboard Kowboys but more often than not with the car guys....

Reminds of the locker room scene from "The Last American Virgin", hilarious... :tongue:

 

[Fryguy]

Been reading some of the threads on here about pressure pulse tuning, and now I'm considering scrapping those turbo headers and making another set from scratch.

That would be a huge waste of time. You won't lose half a tenth.

On another topic, what route do most of you guys go to fill in the EGR ports w/the factory cast iron heads? Do you use nickel, or do you braze them...

The guy that does my heads pours aluminum in there. Blocking it off at the gasket seems to just burn through eventually.

 

[Street Lethal]

The guy that does my heads pours aluminum in there. Blocking it off at the gasket seems to just burn through eventually....

What about the difference in expansion rate though, wouldn't nickel and/or braze be better with cast iron? I gotta disagree with you though regarding pressure pulse tuning, it seems that the greatest benefit of it is within the rate of acceleration factor. Yes, Gale Banks for example can squeeze 1000 horsepower with log manifolds, but that is only peak, the average would pale in comparison throughout the RPM band, and every tenth counts... :tongue:

 

[Fryguy]

What about the difference in expansion rate though, wouldn't nickel and/or braze be better with cast iron?

My first set of aftermarket heads were GT40 Irons back in the mid 90s. They had the EGR blocked this way and I ran them on the street for years and years with no issue.

I gotta disagree with you though regarding pressure pulse tuning, it seems that the greatest benefit of it is within the rate of acceleration factor. Yes, Gale Banks for example can squeeze 1000 horsepower with log manifolds, but that is only peak, the average would pale in comparison throughout the RPM band, and every tenth counts... :tongue:

Do you actually race, or do you just read this stuff? I mean no offense by that, but if you're going to disagree with me, I'd hope you had actually tried some of these things. On a properly set up race car, your "RPM band" is pretty small. You won't go quicker/faster with your fancy headers, but you might be able to convince DonWG that they work better. Did you read about this on the same site where you read that the biggest blower is always the best as long as you have a 'gate on it?

 

[Street Lethal]

My first set of aftermarket heads were GT40 Irons back in the mid 90s. They had the EGR blocked this way and I ran them on the street for years and years with no issue....

That is irrelevant though, as I have welded up plenty of EGR ports in naturally aspirated applications with silly putty (figure of speech), and it held fine. I'm asking in terms of turbo applications where EGT's reach way over 1500-degrees, and the expansion rate becomes a very critical factor....

Do you actually race, or do you just read this stuff? I mean no offense by that, but if you're going to disagree with me, I'd hope you had actually tried some of these things....

No offense taken, and yes I actually race, and yes I have applied these things in both naturally aspirated and supercharged applications. Not quite sure why you jump to ask that question about racing, because even is Kevin's case, although he does not race anymore, his credibility is there to be realized by anyone who is willing to listen to what he is saying....

On a properly set up race car, your "RPM band" is pretty small. You won't go quicker/faster with your fancy headers, but you might be able to convince DonWG that they work better....

Your RPM band is small if you build it to be small, thus reducing your rate of acceleration. In my SBC build, the engine will most definitely pull from 3500-RPM, to 7200-RPM, in all gears, and I wouldn't call that a small RPM band, not in my case anyway. Yes, if your running a 4000 stall speed, with a capped RPM limit of 5500-RPM, and if you build everything around it to satisfy everything in between, then I would definitely see your point...

Did you read about this on the same site where you read that the biggest blower is always the best as long as you have a 'gate on it?

Prove to me factually that a bigger/pullied supercharger running a wastegate on the cold side of the intake wouldn't make more boost earlier, more boost in between, as well a more boost later in the RPM band with a wastegate controlling psi. I am more then willing to have a conversation about this because I know two guys that have done that, one with an F3, and one with a YSI, and they average way more than anything smaller could ever produce...

 

[Alky V6]

Street Lethal. Why don't you post up some of the links you've been exploring on the subject of pressure pulse tuning. I, for one, am always eager to explore.

 

[Fryguy]

No offense taken, and yes I actually race, and yes I have applied these things in both naturally aspirated and supercharged applications. Not quite sure why you jump to ask that question about racing, because even is Kevin's case, although he does not race anymore, his credibility is there to be realized by anyone who is willing to listen to what he is saying.

N/A and supercharged applications are obviously different from turbo applications when you're talking about exhaust systems before the turbo. So the answer is no, you have not tried it.

Your RPM band is small if you build it to be small, thus reducing your rate of acceleration. In my SBC build, the engine will most definitely pull from 3500-RPM, to 7200-RPM, in all gears, and I wouldn't call that a small RPM band, not in my case anyway.

Really? What trans are you running, what will your launch and shift RPM be? At what RPM would you run it through the lights?

I'm asking this because instead of wasting time with fancy headers, you could be looking at things that actually matter when trying to make a given combination go as quick as possible. Making the "power band" as wide as possible isn't the best way if that's what you're trying to do.

Prove to me factually that a bigger/pullied supercharger running a wastegate on the cold side of the intake wouldn't make more boost earlier, more boost in between, as well a more boost later in the RPM band with a wastegate controlling psi. I am more then willing to have a conversation about this because I know two guys that have done that, one with an F3, and one with a YSI, and they average way more than anything smaller could ever produce...

The wastegate is not relevant in an application where a drag car is properly set up to take as much as the blower will put out and and get down the track in the limited RPM that the car runs in. In this application you'd think you would have a better chance of being correct, but you're not. There are plenty of 7 second small block cars out there that WILL slow down when adding a big F3 over an F2. As I said in my previous post on this topic, it's due to a number of things, rotating mass being one of them. Your great wastegate idea doesn't seem to take into consideration the amount of power it takes to turn a large blower, which is a lot.