The Only 3300 lb. Buick V6 in the 8s using...

[Fryguy]

It is like comparing superchargers, an F3 Procharger is way more efficient than a D1, but then you'll have guys saying that a D1 is more suited for engines making x amount of horsepower and it's better on the street, which is nonsense. Guys now are running turbo wastegates on the intake tract of their centrifugal supercharger setups so they can control the amount of boost being applied (as opposed to relying on pulley size), then stuffing the largest supercharger that they can get on there and pullying it up. Doing that both maximizes and controls that power throughout, making the whole menu on Procharger's website of varying compressor setups being completely irrelavent, which is why you will never see them come out with a wastegate for a supercharger, because then you would only see one type of supercharger being sold, the biggest one....

LOL!!!

prove to me factually that a bigger/pullied supercharger running a wastegate on the cold side of the intake wouldn't make more boost earlier, more boost in between, as well a more boost later in the rpm band with a wastegate controlling psi. I am more then willing to have a conversation about this because i know two guys that have done that, one with an f3, and one with a ysi, and they average way more than anything smaller could ever produce...

the wastegate is not relevant in an application where a drag car is properly set up to take as much as the blower will put out and and get down the track in the limited rpm that the car runs in. In this application you'd think you would have a better chance of being correct, but you're not. There are plenty of 7 second small block cars out there that will slow down when adding a big f3 over an f2. As i said in my previous post on this topic, it's due to a number of things, rotating mass being one of them. Your great wastegate idea doesn't seem to take into consideration the amount of power it takes to turn a large blower, which is a lot.

oh my goodness, are you serious? Exactly how much more resistance do you think applies there...?

i see the same thing here, very often. The compressor wheels are huge. An f3 can be anywhere from 123mm to 139mm. A small block will run faster with a 123mm than it will with a 139mm because of parasitic drag. The 139mm is just too big for a small block. Also the larger the engine, the more hp the car will put to the tires with the same 139mm. A 565ci with a 139 can not compete with a 706ci with a 139. That's why it's so hard to keep the blower rules fair for everyone. They aren't like a turbo engine where a small block and big block can make near the same power with 88's.

just for laughs i copied and pasted this post and sent it to procharger tech support. I thought for sure the response would be hilarious. Here it is, verbatim from their tech department:

"the person that posted that has no clue what they're talking about. How much
sense does it make to put a blower that takes 500-600 hp just to spin on a
300 hp engine? Your car would be slower than it was before the blower was
added. People do install blow-off valves to control boost, but in order not
to hit a point of diminishing gains, they still start off with an
appropriately sized blower. "

street lethal keyboard racing, you are a fountain of knowledge

hahhahaha

 

[Street Lethal]

Let's hear it, let's hear how the wastegate on the cold side of the supercharger will not allow you to run the largest centrifugual supercharger possible eliminating the need for the "right sized one" lol. Let's hear how "compressor maps" still come into play when it is ONLY a matter of boost coming in early, and lasting all the way through, albeit regulated! Why not invite that tech of yours into this thread as perhaps he can explain things, and I will invite the folks from the Turbo People, as well as the owner of that Mustang running the wastegate on his setup. Are you game, and no, I don't mean the McDonalds monopoly game...

I run a very small pully and the wastegate regulates the boost at 15 pounds on pump gas, when im on race gas and the wastegate is closed im running 21 pounds, I get 689 rwhp at 15 psi and 932 at 21psi on a STREET car- no quirks...

Keep avoiding the questions FryGuy, everyone here see's how you purposely dodge what is being presented to you. You offer nothing tangible, only speculation. Get your "tech guy", maybe he will learn something, and maybe take his new found knowledge and possibly step up to two digits an hour w/Procharger...

 

[Street Lethal]

Why do you keep focusing on my job? Is that what keyboard racers do when they know they're trying to discuss something that they don't know anything about?

Honestly no, I just got back from eating lunch at McDonalds, and the jokes were just up in the air. They were just "there" so to speak, so I reached for them, kinda like you do with your logic... :wink:

Let me just say this. If are that interested in my job, maybe I can put in a good word with my boss and hook you up?

No need for the hookup, the qualifications speak for themselves... :wink:

Maybe then you'll be able to step up from that trailer park third generation F-body that will never run again? LOL!!!

Hmm, associating 3rd Gen F-Body's with trailer parks? Our TTA brethren just lost mucho respect for you...

 

[Fryguy]

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument.

 

[Alky V6]

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument.

Especially when he won't answer a simple yes/no question.

 

[Alky V6]

The ignorant quote of the month award goes to flypaper.

"Well then, tell me why Tony's car is so much faster than yours, and he's running a smaller turbo?"

 

[Street Lethal]

The ignorant quote of the month award goes to flypaper.

"Well then, tell me why Tony's car is so much faster than yours, and he's running a smaller turbo?"

That is signature material lol...

Hey Fryguy, can you keep a secret, you'll also see plenty of small blocks running faster than big blocks...

 

[Alky V6]

flyboy. I think your only saving grace at this point would be if you were to give up the person who's been feeding you this crap to post.
If that's not the case, and all your posts have truly been originals,.. well,... we can't help you, my son.

 

[its2qik]

Flypaper. If Tony were to use my turbo with his heads, assuming he could spool it without nitrous, would he go faster, or slower?

Faster, but only if he whips himself up a set of super-duper, pulse-tuned, Medusa-lookin' headers to make that turbo sing like it should!

 

[Alky V6]

Faster, but only if he whips himself up a set of super-duper, pulse-tuned, Medusa-lookin' headers to make that turbo sing like it should!

Even without the headers. Just no singing.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Let's hear it, let's hear how the wastegate on the cold side of the supercharger will not allow you to run the largest centrifugual supercharger possible eliminating the need for the "right sized one" lol. Let's hear how "compressor maps" still come into play when it is ONLY a matter of boost coming in early, and lasting all the way through, albeit regulated! Why not invite that tech of yours into this thread as perhaps he can explain things, and I will invite the folks from the Turbo People, as well as the owner of that Mustang running the wastegate on his setup. Are you game, and no, I don't mean the McDonalds monopoly game...

I run a very small pully and the wastegate regulates the boost at 15 pounds on pump gas, when im on race gas and the wastegate is closed im running 21 pounds, I get 689 rwhp at 15 psi and 932 at 21psi on a STREET car- no quirks...

I really don't know why I'm replying but just wanted to clear up some confusion here. This guy is doing this so he won't have to make pulley changes to go from race tune to pump gas tune. He's not using the largest blower he can get away with. He's using the "properly sized" blower and pulley arrangement to meet his hp goals, then using the wastegate on the charge tubing to regulate it down for pump gas.

This set-up is also used on race cars for power management. It's not so someone can put a 139mm on a 360ci engine and pulley it to make 60psi of boost. You still have to pick the properly sized blower for your engine size and hp goals. You won't call a single company or tuner that will tell you to put a 130+mm blower on a small block and regulate the boost down with a wastegate. If you want to run 7.80's, they aren't going to recommend a F3 139mm when an F1R will run that fast.

When you try to launch a blown drag radial car you have to pull timing at the hit and ramp it in over time. This isn't always the best possible way to control power when your having to pull the timing down to 2,3 or 4 degrees BTDC. The engine just isn't happy and it becomes real touchy. With the wastegate set-up the tuner can launch with more timing so the engine is happy and use a boost controller just like a turbo car does to ramp the boost in over time.

 

[John Wilde]

Thank you Dusty for dropping some knowledge, this is a great way to end this thread...