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The problem with racing "classes"...

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toofastforyou

2FAST4U
Joined
May 25, 2001
Messages
5,785
I'm writing this post to express my feelings about these TSM, TSO, TSE, TSL's etc...classes:
Several years ago, I used to race an NHRA legal "super stock" class Chevelle and later a Camaro. There were rules for everyone which we did our best to follow. But year after year, NHRA was getting to a point where rules were more and more prohibitive...Instead of saying "you can do this or you can do that" etc... they seemed to take pleasure in saying that "you CAN'T do this and you CAN'T do that"......It was frustrating instead of being fun. The emphasis was more in prohibiting than in permitting. Also when you got to an NHRA sanctioned event, the officials were always quick to point out things that were "wrong" on your car and wouldn't let you race unless you fixed it the way they wanted you to. I'm not talking about safety related rules here, but rather rules about cylinder heads, carburetors, original parts that could not be allowed in the different classes, the weight of the cars, etc... I remember always being a little nervous passing tech inspections wondering "what will they find this time to keep me from running"?...That was no fun anymore. I then decided that I'd had enough and that I said "f**c" NHRA, I'm going bracket racing. "Class racing" was over for me. After all, I was racing mainly TO HAVE FUN!
Now that I'm into Buicks, I read about TSO, TSM, TSE, TSL "classes" and I feel the same way as I did back when I was NHRA racing!...Do you really think that I built my GN to please Scott Simpson and Lonnie Diers so it would "fit" into one of their classes? NO !...I built it the way I wanted and that I could afford and if it doesn't "fit" well in one of these classes, it's just too bad! I'll race it at bracket racing events, but they won't see me at those "Buick" events. I live quite far from Bowling Green or Norwalk etc... and it doesn't make any sense for me to set up my car for that one and only event!
These rules and those who make them always seem to favor a small group of racers who decide who gets in or not.
It's too bad because I would have one day to participate with my GN at the Bowling Green event...or maybe Reynolds...but I don't think I'll ever go after reading those discouraging TSM or TSO or whatever rules...:( After reading some of the rules in TSM and TSO etc..., I still cannot figure out in which one of these classes it would "happen to fit" (as opposed to a car specially-built for that class)...My car wouldn't be competitive as it would probably end up in a category where I wouldn't have a chance to win a single run.

On a more positive note, let me just say that I do attend the "Buick Performance Weekend" each year at Englishtown, NJ and their way of running the event is by putting the cars in several classes based on the times they run, which is much less complicated, but more important, GIVING EVERYONE A FAIR CHANCE AT WINNING!

Thank you for reading ...and sorry for the long post!...

Claude :)
 
I'll start off by saying bracket racing sucks. It sucks to race, it sucks to watch. It just sucks period:smile:

I race in the TSM class. Not too many rules besides the turbo limit and stock block. Not too hard to build a TSM car imo. Heads up racing is and will always be hard to control. However, when everyone is using the same car, same engine...it becomes easier to police. The only compromise my car has to fit the TSM rules is a 70 turbo...not too much of a big deal for me. I've raced brackets and heads up. NOTHING compares to racing headsup. It's easier for me to afford running this Buick class then trying to compete in any OSCRA race.

Besides, I don't see a lot of arguing ever going on in the TSM class. Maybe it's b/c I'm a noob at it:confused: I raced at 4 events this year and there was not one racer bitching about another racer's car (at least that I know of.)
 
Hmmm, Wonder why someone who hasn't raced in a Class just decided to jump in and bash our Class.... Seems like we all get along fine.

As long as you have a 70 and a stock block and meet the weight I'm sure no one in the TSM Class would mind letting you run, in fact, We'd love the car count to be higher..


A good friend made a comment to me tonight about differences in people and what they do with their cars....

" It's America, You can do what you want".. Makes since to me..
 
I'll start off by saying bracket racing sucks. It sucks to race, it sucks to watch. It just sucks period:smile:



Besides, I don't see a lot of arguing ever going on in the TSM class. Maybe it's b/c I'm a noob at it:confused: I raced at 4 events this year and there was not one racer bitching about another racer's car (at least that I know of.)



Kevin, you did not hear the bitching because it was all about your car. Just joking. Heard from a buddy of your I might see you Monday.
Take care, Kip
 
Kevin, you did not hear the bitching because it was all about your car. Just joking. Heard from a buddy of your I might see you Monday.
Take care, Kip

Yeah, I got something for you. lol. Was hoping to make it down there. Might have to mail it to you instead:)
 
Mainly because I can't sleep, I'll put in my two cents. I bracket race. I'm too poor to class race. Which is why bracket racing came to be anyway. If you follow nmra or nmca, he who has the most money wins. I watched import racing in its early day. It was exciting to watch low buck guys try to get down the track in one piece:eek: But corporate sponsorship came, and little guy disappeared. Why, a 2 second difference means the guy could eat sandwhich before leaving and still win. But I think Buick class racing is different. These are hardcore Buick fans. No corporate sponsor I can think of. Just guys who try to eek out every horsepower they can out of 20 year old technology. What's that mean to me. Proven horsepower combinations that make reliable street cars, absolute monsters. A terror that makes any ls1 or mod vehicle make right turn when driving next to you. (importers still want to race, i'll never understand it):confused: So race what you want, as long as you have fun.
 
"Class" racing...

"KevinB" and "V6RACER", it was not my intention of bashing your class. If I did, then I apologize. I just wanted to relate my past experience with class racing with some prohibitive guidelines which seem to favor a few priviledged racers, as it's almost the same bunch of guys that win this kind of races. I know what class racing is as I've raced in NHRA "super stock" classes for years without ever winning anything except one "class win" at the Springnationals back in '77. Other than that, I've had some fun, came close to winning several times but that's it. That's why I and a lot of other guys in my area turned to bracket racing. Bracket racing is all about giving EVERYONE a fair chance at winning, ( due to the handicap system) no matter what car you drive and no matter how thick your wallet is.! It's a "run what you brung" thing. The only important issue is that all cars be safe, other than that you can do whatever you want to your car. In class racing, the only guys standing a chance of winning are either the ones who have enough money to afford all the latest (approved for the class) technology or those with a lot of knowledge, and sometimes both. If you're just a regular guy like me (I'm not a mechanic), with a street driven car, well, your chances diminish greatly, almost next to none. Don't try to convince me otherwise on this...I know excatly what I'm talking about, having been through that in the past!
As for building my car for a specific class, well... no. I built my car to enjoy it...in other words, "HAVING FUN". After rebuilding my stock block engine several times over the years, I got tired of breaking parts once in a while and wanted something more bulletproof, with 14 head bolts, better main caps, etc...I shelled out the money and had a "TA" block built with an "Eagle" crank, "Carillo" rods, "M&A" heads, etc, etc... for better reliability both at the track and on the street. All this to "HAVE MORE FUN"! which I do because I'm not always concerned about the engine letting go on me. The peace of mind it gives me is very much part of the fun too. I drive it on the street and race it every now and then. To me, that's fun...:smile:
Then I happened to read the rules for TSM class and it immediately reminded me of the time when I was NHRA racing :frown: . I found out that my car wouldn't be allowed in that class simply because I have an aftermarket block and maybe more "TSM-prohibited" stuff...:rolleyes: Why does someone has to be penalized because he wanted to make his car more reliable?? Also, stock blocks are becoming rarer and the guys selling them are asking big money for them...Tell me: WHERE DID THE "FUN" GO?
I don't understand where's the fun in insisting on building an engine that you're going to have to spend a lot to make it fast and reliable to race with instead of building something that's stronger to begin with, minimizing the risk of it blowing apart?...I'd rather play it safe and put all the chances on my side and build something as bullet proof as possible!
Does the fact that the engine did not blow up in winning TSM fun ?...Well, sorry but not for me.

Claude :redface:
 
If you have a TA block, You probably have more money into your engine than I have in my whole car. I'm serious about that too (<$15K in my whole deal, car included). A 109 stock block built by the right person can last a long time. My 109 had 100+ passes this year with no broken parts.
 
"KevinB", it's true that I spent a lot on my car, but the main reason for this is that I was fed up of breaking parts and decided to build something stronger, giving me peace of mind. Why should I be penalized for that? Shouldn't I be allowed to have fun with the rest of you guys?...Apparently no...:rolleyes: I don't even know in which class my car would happen to "fit" :D ...
That's why bracket racing appears a good solution for me...no rules (except those pertaining to safety). You just "run what you brung"...and the guy who cannot afford to spend as much as I did has the exact same chances of winning than the one who does. I suppose that you do not like bracket racing because you succeed in winning in that TSM class once in a while...well good for you, but for those who cannot even go past the first round (because there are no handicaps giving an unfair advantage to the fastest guys who by the same token win all the time), bracket racing suddenly becomes a more interesting way to having fun...Because having FUN is what it's all about, right?...

Claude :)
 
Hmmm, Wonder why someone who hasn't raced in a Class just decided to jump in and bash our Class.... Seems like we all get along fine.

As long as you have a 70 and a stock block and meet the weight I'm sure no one in the TSM Class would mind letting you run, in fact, We'd love the car count to be higher..


A good friend made a comment to me tonight about differences in people and what they do with their cars....

" It's America, You can do what you want".. Makes since to me..

I have been to a few of the TSM races this year (BG and Reynolds) .. TSM guys were more than friendly to us ... hmmmm MAYBE because I am such a "charmer" :p Melissa was asked to run in Reynolds with them but she didn't want to beat up on the guys that bad :biggrin: to me TSM is the easier class to run in as far as rules .. hate bracket racing :mad: :cool:
 
I have been to a few of the TSM races this year (BG and Reynolds) .. TSM guys were more than friendly to us

Please, be assured that I never meant to say that TSM guys were not friendly...But rather that posts could be summed up as two things:

First, that I think that class racing sucks :tongue: ...and
second, I prefer bracket racing...that's all.:wink:

"To each his own"...:rolleyes: I'm sorry if my posts offended or upset anyone as it was not my intention to do so...I just expressed my feelings towards class racing, period.

Claude :D
 
Guys...I have a question...Other than "TSO", "TSM", etc...are there some bracket classes at Bowling Green or any other big Buick-related events? If there is, then I would be interested in participating...:wink:...After reading some of the rules, my car is not legal for "TSM" and too slow for "TSO"...:frown:

Thanks,

Claude :)
 
Guys...I have a question...Other than "TSO", "TSM", etc...are there some bracket classes at Bowling Green or any other big Buick-related events? If there is, then I would be interested in participating...:wink:...After reading some of the rules, my car is not legal for "TSM" and too slow for "TSO"...:frown:

Thanks,

Claude :)

I'm glad you posted this because I just saw this thread and was about get on your case.

Yes there are bracket classes at bowling green I know for sure and I assume most of the other Buick events.
 
Yeah, there are like 5 bracket classes at the gs nationals. That is what I raced last year which was my first year there racing. The class rules are a little on the particular side. My car does not fit into tsm because I don't run exhaust and have 16" wheels. You have to run a set of "matching 15" wheels". Does someone out there actually think there is an advantage to running something like a 16" wheel? My car is not fast enough to be competetive in tsm anyways but I think it would be fun. Oh well, brackets can be fun too.
 
Question for "Slow91z"...

I'm glad you posted this because I just saw this thread and was about get on your case.

"Slow91z", when you say "get on my case"...what's that supposed to mean?..:biggrin: :biggrin:

Claude :biggrin:

P.S:...don't worry...no offense taken!...;)
 
It was going to go something like "What's your problem?? Run bracket if you want to and those of us that want to run heads up will!!"
 
As long as you have a 70 and a stock block and meet the weight I'm sure no one in the TSM Class would mind letting you run, in fact, We'd love the car count to be higher...

If I show up to a TSM event with a forward facing 70mm turbo and a sheetmetal intake I can run?Highly doubtful.....
 
Plenty of bracket classes at BG and gamblers bracket races every day this should fit you, Hope you come and enjoy. God bless
 
Plenty of bracket classes at BG and gamblers bracket races every day this should fit you, Hope you come and enjoy. God bless

Thank you "casper" for replying...However, I should have been more specific with my question...What I wanted to know is if there was other classes than TSM, TSO, etc...DURING (as opposed to "every day" like you said...) the big Buick event held there every year?...(I don't remember the name of the event nor the dates though...:redface: )
I live quite far from Bowling Green...so being there every weekend is out of the question for me!...:biggrin: so this is why I was inquiring about the bigger event as I could possibly make it a "once a year trip"...

thank you,

Claude :)
 
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