Those of you without SMC- Interested in a pump speed control?
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IrvJr
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You mean like a cockpit mounted adjustable resistor to vary the voltage to the pump? You can get one at one of those bulk electronics warehouses for less than that.
Scott
Scott
No irvjr, i mean a PWM contoller made to handle the amperage needed. If you know a bulk electronics warehouse that sells PWM motor speed controls for less than $40, you tell me where it is please. I have never even seen a bulk electronics warehouse.
Gary
Gary
IrvJr
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Theres a place in Orlando called Skycraft, they carry EVERYTHING. Tell me how much amperage you want it to handle and i will find out for you.
Scott
Scott
Michael Johnson
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Yellow95,
Are you building a system that will increase pump speed with rpm? If so, how are you accomplishing it? I have been running an SMC kit on my car for about a year and have found that on Kenne Bell blown cars the full boost at 2,000 rpm to redline causes bogging problems in the lower rpm range. I think the only way to solve it is to have dual nozzles with one being boost triggered and the other being boost AND rpm triggered or have a pump speed controller that increases its flow rate as rpms increase. The problem I see probably isn't any concern for a centrifugal blown car and possibly not a concern for turbo cars. Just wondering if it is something you have considered.
Are you building a system that will increase pump speed with rpm? If so, how are you accomplishing it? I have been running an SMC kit on my car for about a year and have found that on Kenne Bell blown cars the full boost at 2,000 rpm to redline causes bogging problems in the lower rpm range. I think the only way to solve it is to have dual nozzles with one being boost triggered and the other being boost AND rpm triggered or have a pump speed controller that increases its flow rate as rpms increase. The problem I see probably isn't any concern for a centrifugal blown car and possibly not a concern for turbo cars. Just wondering if it is something you have considered.
Michael Johnson
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I'm waiting on some parts from SMC to do a dual nozzle system on my car. One nozzle before the blower and one after. You might want to consider getting two solenoids, one for each nozzle, that can be opened when the pump starts. The second nozzle can have an rpm switch in-line to complete the circuit letting it's solenoid open. The only time you need the spray is under boost and having a nozzle activated by the TPS might cause some problems if it can allow spraying under non-boost conditions. The one you activate based on rpm needs to also be activated with a boost trigger IMO. The KB blowers can run at 5,000 rpm and not make a lick of boost if the throttle isn't open enough to feed it sufficient air.
Summit sells a good rpm switch if you are looking for one. Here's the part number: SUM-830449
Summit sells a good rpm switch if you are looking for one. Here's the part number: SUM-830449
K
Keith Ashcraft
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Michael, I spoke to Brad at kcsaab last night about a way to keep the KB from bogging at low RPM's and he has what seems to be a very good solution. He sells a "high speed valve" that you use to actuate the water injectors. The HSV works by tapping into the wire going to one of your injectors and it will pulse the water injector every time that one fuel injectors pulse. So your computer will vary the amount of water being put into the engine in relationship to engine load and fuel requirments. I am thinking of using this in conjunction with a 2 PSI hobbs switch and a 100 PSI Shur Flo pump.
If anyone would like to comment on why this may not work, please do.
If anyone would like to comment on why this may not work, please do.
Michael Johnson
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Keith, that sounds like an interesting way to solve the problem. I guess I would need to know how durable the valves are and does pulsing hurt the atomization of the water/alcohol. Also, I would if the rapid on/off of the valve would eventually hurt the pump. Looks like there might be a micro "water hammer" effect from the valve opening and closing.
A different idea.
Here's how I'm going to run my alky system on my centrifugal setup, but this may work for a KB as well.
1. Start out with your average Shur-FLo pump from the water/alky tank.
2. Cut and modify one side (the side with the regulator) of a stock fuel rail so that you'll have an AN fitting on either end and the adjustasble regulator somewhere in-between.
3. Run an FMU after the "rail" with a return line going back to the tank.
4.Try to fine tune the system! You can run a small enough nozzle so that the mixture will still atomize at the lower "starting" pressure, probably around 40-50 psi, and as the boost rises the FMU will take-over and at full boost will end up somewhere around 90-100psi. (So I'll be seeing about 16lb's of boost, so I'd run a 6:1 FMU.
I can see that this may not work so well with the KB or even turbo application because of the instant boost, but there may be enough lag in the system to prevent that bog? I think it'll work great for a centrifugal blown car once it's dialed in.
Todd.
Here's how I'm going to run my alky system on my centrifugal setup, but this may work for a KB as well.
1. Start out with your average Shur-FLo pump from the water/alky tank.
2. Cut and modify one side (the side with the regulator) of a stock fuel rail so that you'll have an AN fitting on either end and the adjustasble regulator somewhere in-between.
3. Run an FMU after the "rail" with a return line going back to the tank.
4.Try to fine tune the system! You can run a small enough nozzle so that the mixture will still atomize at the lower "starting" pressure, probably around 40-50 psi, and as the boost rises the FMU will take-over and at full boost will end up somewhere around 90-100psi. (So I'll be seeing about 16lb's of boost, so I'd run a 6:1 FMU.
I can see that this may not work so well with the KB or even turbo application because of the instant boost, but there may be enough lag in the system to prevent that bog? I think it'll work great for a centrifugal blown car once it's dialed in.
Todd.
Michael Johnson
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wiplash,
On a centrifugal blown car I don't think you have to get that exotic. You only see full boost above 5,000 rpm and you "window of operation" is narrow compared to turbo and KB blown cars. You might want to try it with simple setup first then get more exotic if needed.
On a centrifugal blown car I don't think you have to get that exotic. You only see full boost above 5,000 rpm and you "window of operation" is narrow compared to turbo and KB blown cars. You might want to try it with simple setup first then get more exotic if needed.
Michael, maybe not but the heat and boost charasterics of the centrifugal would mirror this setup. If nothing else I'd be able to turn it on earlier and get more agressive with the timing earlier. With 7lb's and 140 deg inlet temps at 3,000rpm's, and 16lb's and 230+deg's at 6,000rpm's...... the required amount of water/alky flow would be quite a bit different. No reason not to try it with the parts just sitting around either, and nothing wrong with new ideas. The window may be more narrow, but there's always power to be had with the ability to tune more aggressively everywhere and with 7lb's as low as 3,000 it's still significant.
Todd.
Todd.
K
Keith Ashcraft
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Michael, would you be able to help me with the volume of water needed for the KB. I don't want to buy every aquamist nozzle to get it close. Do you know the flow rate of your nozzles? Any recomendations? Thanks.
Michael Johnson
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wiplash,
If you're making 7# at 3,000 rpm then you could probrably use some spray at that point. Keep us posted on how it works.
Keith,
I reaslly don't know what size will work best on a KB because my car is still in the shop. I know Ed Clark uses a 1 gph nozzle that works well on his GT with a Novi 1000. I think it will be between 1-3 gph. I'll need to experiment with them to know for sure.
If you're making 7# at 3,000 rpm then you could probrably use some spray at that point. Keep us posted on how it works.
Keith,
I reaslly don't know what size will work best on a KB because my car is still in the shop. I know Ed Clark uses a 1 gph nozzle that works well on his GT with a Novi 1000. I think it will be between 1-3 gph. I'll need to experiment with them to know for sure.
John at J&S
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PWM
Irvjr:
PWM means pulse width modulation. The controller rapidly pulses the 12 volts going to the pump. The duty cycle is what is varied. Trying to vary the voltage to the pump doesn't work that well. Overcoming the starting torque of the pump requires a higher voltage than that required to keep it running.
Irvjr:
PWM means pulse width modulation. The controller rapidly pulses the 12 volts going to the pump. The duty cycle is what is varied. Trying to vary the voltage to the pump doesn't work that well. Overcoming the starting torque of the pump requires a higher voltage than that required to keep it running.
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