Tranny Went Kaboom!

[mtocrs1]

Well, out torturing the TR today and noticed smoke then car would not move.
Got it home and the underside of my car was covered in tranny fluid! Filled up the tranny and it is running out between the converter and front of tranny like a garden hose. Can’t really tell where? What the #$%$. Tranny was built like 10 years ago with good internals. Guess it finally let go. Where do I start?
Who builds quality trannys these days?

 

[mikestertwo]

Sounds like you blew the front seal.

 

[mtocrs1]

So just try replacing the front seal? What can cause the front seal to blow out like that? Oh yeah I forgot to mention that when the car is running it kind of sounds like the tranny is making noise.

 

[SSedan64]

Front Seal

Make sure the pump bushing hasn't worked forward & pushed/cut the seal. Install a seal retainer.
The 690 pump body has a step to prevent the bushing from moving forward, the 082 & 149 bodies do not. In these the bushing can be staked in place but not while it's in the trans.
Vent tube on top of trans may be stopped up & cause pressure to build.
What does the noise sound like?

 

[mtocrs1]

It kind of sounds like an exhaust rattle. Rubber marbles in a can? It almost sounds like the noise is in the converter. Looking like the tranny needs to come out either way. I will take some pictures of the seal tomorrow? Maybe something will stand out for you tranny guys. What can cause the pump bushing to work forward? I will also check to see what style pump I have. Thanks for the help so far guys.

 

[Rell87]

Mine just blew too, after around 2200 miles and thousands of dollars in performance upgrades. I just ordered a stage 2 from CK performane

 

[WE4]

Another pump issue.

On this one, I put my money on either a cracked TQ neck or a cracked rotor in the pump. If the crack is cracked past the seal it will leak immediatly.If not What can happen is the neck eventually spins the bushing in the aluminum pump housing. Then it slides down towards the seal. Once it gets that far , the fluid cannot return and out the front it goes. The marble noise is the clue here. The seal "could" have fallen out, but just the seal to fall out is kinda unusual without another issue or excessive heat, unless it was installed incorrectly , which I doubt. As far as the cracked rotor, it is very possible , especially if an "aftermarket" one was installed. If it was a 13 vane rotor, I would almost bet the farm it is cracked.
Do this.
Put car SECURELY on 4 jackstands.

Remove TQ cover shield. (If not already gone)

Make sure you have fluid in the trans and a clean drain pan to save any fluid that goes in and right back out. (why watse it if it can be avoided?)

Wear crappy clothes you can throw away when done. Get yourself a FACESHIELD.

With a friend, put them in the car and start it.Be undercar with a light of some sort and look at the TC area, and look up at the back of the converter (towards trans) and see EXACTLY where it is coming from. TRUST me , you will know!. Have them run it through ALL the gears including Rev, manual 1,manual2 because that is where the pressure is the highest. Make sure they hold the brake so tires aren't slinging any crap around your garage or yourself!

Please, I cannot say or relay this enough. BE CAREFULL! MAKE SURE CAR IS SECURE BEFORE LAYING UNDER IT!!!

Let me know what you find.
Good Luck and be careful!
Bruce
We4
Performance Transmission Services

 

[WE4]

BTW.... We do build quality 2004r's... LOL

Guess it finally let go. Where do I start?
Who builds quality trannys these days?

I gave you a place to start, now get out there and fix it.. LOL ( Just what you wanted to do this weekend , huh?) Another one of those things you needed like a 3rd testicle , huh? LOL
Well, champ, give it a try and lets see what you "discover".

Bruce
We4
Performance Transmission Services

 

[charlief1]

Bruse, you need to open one in Texas so you can cover the Redneck Riveara as well. lol

 

[mtocrs1]

Well Bruce you did give me a place to start and it sounds like hell! Didn’t have the time to suit up and get doused with tranny fluid but I did snap a couple picks of the seal. It looks like it is not all the way in? Let me know what you think? If the rotor is cracked will it be easy to spot? If I remember correctly the rotor was aftermarket. I will try and dig up some 10-year-old receipts to verify.

 

[WE4]

Well...

Looks like it is not all the way in to me. Big boo boo. I would pull it out and ck everything else as well. Why not just do it right? I agree with you, it looks not installed correctly. Let me know.

 

[mtocrs1]

Think I have a plan but have questions

So after quite a bit of research on here it sounds like my failure is common and can be fixed fairly easily? I am going to try and repair the tranny myself. My plan is to remove the front pump, install a new front bushing and seal with locktite. Reinstall and see what happens? Also if I can figure it out I plan on staking the bushing. Need your help here. That is of course as long as other problems are not noticed. FYI: the car was limped home a ¼ mile with almost no fluid. Twice when I hit the gas the clutches slipped so I idled it home. I should have stopped but I was so close and lazy. Ok now for the questions.
1. Do you think the clutches and bands are ok?
2. Could I have hurt the torque converter with the fluid being that low and it there a way to check?
3. Can the rotor in the pump be replaced or do I need a new pump if it is cracked?
4. What temp should the tranny fluid be under normal conditions? Mine has always been at 200-210 since it was rebuilt.

Thanks for all the help in advance.

 

[WE4]

Well......

1. Do you think the clutches and bands are ok?

Think? Only one way to KNOW. Pull it aprt and ck it. They could be hurt, it is definitly a possibility.

2. Could I have hurt the torque converter with the fluid being that low and it there a way to check?
Hurt it by low fluid, I really doubt, but if a pump issue took place, the neck could be buggered up or if there is clutch material around, It could have contaminated it. You will not know till you pull it out.

3. Can the rotor in the pump be replaced or do I need a new pump if it is cracked?

The pump rotor an slide are various thicknesses. If you knew to the thousandth what yours was it could be replaced, but it HAS TO BE EXACT!!
4. What temp should the tranny fluid be under normal conditions? Mine has always been at 200-210 since it was rebuilt.
That is very slight high but ok. at 230-240 I would start to worry

Call the shop if you would like to discuss in depth. I will explain to you the thickness issue or go to strengthing the 2004r at the beginning of the trans forum and read about the pump. That will give you some insight as to what we are referring to. My wife has been down and hurt so I am in and out these last couple days and probobly a day or so more. Severe back issue. So being the"good husband" I have been at her beg and call . I am SURE you can relate. If you get the machine, leave a message and where I can get back to you and I surely will. I try to ck it a few times a day.
Hope this helped.:smile:
916-739-0510 9-4 pst
WE4
Bruce
Performance Transmission Services
Thanks for all the help in advance.

xxx

 

[mtocrs1]

Hey Bruce

I finally took some time and pulled the tranny. Looks like the bushing pushed forward and spun in the pump. The converter neck is a little buggared up, but I don’t see any cracks. Is it possible to clean the converter neck up with emery cloth and or sand paper? That damn converter cost me like $800.00 bucks.
I also found some metal flakes in the bottom of the pan but I am not sure if they really are of any importance. I have seen flakes like these before in other tranny pans with no issues.
What and how do I look to see if the rotor cracked in the pump?
How in the heck do you normally get the pump out of the tranny? I have all the bolts out and removed the TCC solenoid and it wont budge. Got any tips or tricks to get it out?
Please let me know what you think my options are for getting this thing fixed. What would you do on an extremely limited budget? Some will just say do it once and do it right go thru the entire tranny. Normally I would but I am expecting my first-born child in a couple weeks and things are changing including my budget. I would like to get it up and going for minimal investment for now. My labor is free so if I have to remove and install the tranny 5 times I will.
I guess I really don’t know if I can just bolt in a new pump? Can I, if so would you be willing to set up a new pump with the staked bushing and seal installed? I attached pictures so you can see what I am seeing.
Now that I have some understanding of what went wrong I will give you a call to discuss.
Thanks for all your help! I really hope your wife gets well soon.

 

[SSedan64]

Looks like what I described in my earlier post. Bushing moved forward. You should open up the filter to see how much metal is in there also. That crap may be everywhere including the converter.
Try tapping the pump with a drift or something from the back side while wiggling & pulling the Stator shaft.
Pump may be OK and can have a new bushing staked & locktite in. I wouldn't try polishing that Hub. See if you can get a SpeediSleeve that fits over it like is used on Harmonic balancers and driveshaft yokes. Smooth the Hub surface and use Locktite which sometimes comes with the SpeediSleeve.

 

[mtocrs1]

Thanks but still confused

Thanks for the input but how do get a drift on the back of the pump? What else needs to be taken apart to do this? I have only taken the pan off and removed the TCC solenoid so far. I am not a tranny guy so I am trying to take as little apart as possible. Not trying to get in to far over my head :biggrin: Wont the speedie sleeve make the shaft to big to spin in the bushing? Their website makes it seem like the sleeve is just so the seal has a new surface to mate with. The seal area on the converter neck is fine. It is where the neck rides in the bushing that is a problem.

 

[WE4]

Sent you a PM.

Bruce
WE4

 

[KL Mallender]

Good call SS64 and Bruce, I was leaning toward cracked neck, hopefully he has quality pump rotor in there already so wallet damage is at minimums.
Good luck.

Kevin.

 

[SSedan64]

Good call SS64 and Bruce, I was leaning toward cracked neck, hopefully he has quality pump rotor in there already so wallet damage is at minimums.
Good luck.

Kevin.

My SpeediSleeve idea was a BrainFart tho'. :redface:

 

[Alky V6]

Converter hub chewed up on one side. Check for excessive torque converter hub runout.
Hub wallowed out bushing. Bushing spun into front seal, plus excessive oil pressure to the front seal due to the larger hub to bushing clearance caused by the wear and the seal was pushed out.