TSM/TSO Payouts???

[turbobuick]

We raced for 3 days at bpg before we seen the ladder.When i asked i got i don't know i just got out of my f/ing car.i had 10 spectaters 1 racer for all 3 day's.That's plus gas, food,shirt's,hotel's and whatever else.It make's you want to stay home and not spend all that money for that attitude. i don't know what i done to him. Was i asking to much to see the ladder after 3 days?

If you're talking about me I don't recall this. If this is the way it went down I would like to apologize. This would definitely be out of character with me and it may have just been a bad time to catch me. I also don't handle the TSM ladder at these races but as the race director for the BPG I would've taken care of this if someone asked. Again I'm sorry if I was short with you at some point.

 

[quickt]

edited

 

[BobbyBuick]

I had a very wise old man(who is no longer with us)once tell me
"son no matter what business your in 80% of the the people will do 20% of the work and 20% of the people will do 80 % of the work"."you need to take care of that 20%"
he just for got to tell me about all the b!tching the 80% was going to be doing
I know Chris ,Lonnie, and Scott has worked there a$$es off for TSM
Hey Chris lets go boating !oh Bob Slusser here

 

[BillyRValentine]

Mr. Carswell you have my phone number. Any particular reason you prefer to make statements and accusations here instead of picking up the phone to call me and find out exactly what is going on? I would not have done that to you or the GSCA but I guess we don't have the same principles.

I don't have your number as I didn't keep it being that you had no interest in working with Cal to unify the TSM series races. As for our principles I would not have post much of anything here if you didn't come at the racers as this is the way it is and if I have no intention of clarifying it. Other groups may do what they like but I don't appreciate you treating the racers of our events in such a manner. Answer their questions straight and this can simply be resolved. Treating them as if you don't even owe them an explanation is unacceptable PERIOD. To hammer Cal or Jason for asking for clarification after receiving the run around for months is just wrong, plain and simple. That is where my principles lie Chris.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

No requirement needed there Richie. There has never been an event payout at the Reynolds race that I know of. I will bet there's not one this year either. That race is a test and tune they allow us to run a TSM race at. Now on the other hand if you were in the points you should have been paid. Looks like Jim has canceled that TSM race for 2008

No race has been canceled. What has happened is that there will be a new RRA for the TSM class at our events. That is all. Again, the TSM class has NOT been canceled, only the admin reorganized.

Jim C.

 

[turbobuick]

I don't have your number as I didn't keep it being that you had no interest in working with Cal to unify the TSM series races. As for our principles I would not have post much of anything here if you didn't come at the racers as this is the way it is and if I have no intention of clarifying it. Other groups may do what they like but I don't appreciate you treating the racers of our events in such a manner. Answer their questions straight and this can simply be resolved. Treating them as if you don't even owe them an explanation is unacceptable PERIOD. To hammer Cal or Jason for asking for clarification after receiving the run around for months is just wrong, plain and simple. That is where my principles lie Chris.

Jim C.

I did answer their questions several times. THEY are the ones that decided to make a public spectacle out this. If my 'attitude" is a little curt and I seemed a little PISSED you would be correct. The fact that this is being hashed out all over the net is BS and you should be asking yourself why. I have spoken at LENGTH to Jason and Cal about this face to face and on the phone yet they decided (NOT ME) to make a public debate about it.

As I posted previously I SPECIFICALLY TOLD JASON HOW AND WHEN PAYOUTS WERE GOING TO BE MADE FOR TSM. Yet he decided to come on here and start a sh!t storm. Everyone reading this is only getting a fraction of what has been going on.

 

[KevinB]

Whatever happens, I hope the BG TSM race doesn't go down the same road as the BG TSO and BG TSE routes. It's nice to have a 15+ car field. I'd hate to see the rules changed to fit a certain car.

 

[Kip]

No race has been canceled. What has happened is that there will be a new RRA for the TSM class at our events. That is all. Again, the TSM class has NOT been canceled, only the admin reorganized.

Jim C.

Jim, Do you know who the new RRA for those races is going to be? If not who might be on the list to take the spot?
Thanks, Kip

 

[southern boost]

A Simple Question was asked no bitchin just a question and all of this, whatever dont turn a mole hill into mountain .


Also lets get some stuff straight :


1 Lonnine diers has nothin to do with this beside tech asst.and a sponsor
Thanxs Lonnie

2 No fingers pointed at the beginning, this just blow into some thing stupid period

3 A simple question , simple answer ,just outline how the money pay out will work and post on the tsm page the end.

4 Tsm racers lets kill this, people that need closure get together and kill this thanxs .

Finally I love this class its fun and I've made some good friends and hope it doesn't end .

p.s. Kevin you come down beer for you and some steak too.:biggrin:

 

[KevinB]

A Simple Question was asked no bitchin just a question and all of this, whatever dont turn a mole hill into mountain .


Also lets get some stuff straight :


1 Lonnine diers has nothin to do with this beside tech asst.and a sponsor
Thanxs Lonnie

2 No fingers pointed at the beginning, this just blow into some thing stupid period

3 A simple question , simple answer ,just outline how the money pay out will work and post on the tsm page the end.

4 Tsm racers lets kill this, people that need closure get together and kill this thanxs .

Finally I love this class its fun and I've made some good friends and hope it doesn't end .

p.s. Kevin you come down beer for you and some steak too.:biggrin:

I agree with you, hope all sides come to an agreement. I built my car around these rules, I would like tsm racing to stay around...bracket racing sucks IMO.

Randy, if my car is still together and I can barrow a better tow vehicle (my tahoe is up there in mileage and might not make it) I hope to attend.

 

[quickt]

I agree with you, hope all sides come to an agreement. I built my car around these rules, I would like tsm racing to stay around...bracket racing sucks IMO.

Randy, if my car is still together and I can barrow a better tow vehicle (my tahoe is up there in mileage and might not make it) I hope to attend.

Kevin you are welcome to use my 489,000 Silverado.

 

[TurboDiverArt]

First off, I don’t have a horse in this TSM race. None of the JCC has cars in this class. Being around these cars for 20 years I know most of the people involved. It seems funny to me that people are trying to roast Chris Lyons regarding TSM. I have known all year long that Chris's involvement in TSM was to gather sponsor money for the class as well to promote the class. Then I read here that people are looking to him for payout and bashing him regarding him not helping out in tech. When it comes to the TSO Points Series he handles it soup to nuts. If you have an issue about sponsorship, payouts, tech, etc. in TSO then you can contact Chris. Contacting him regarding TSM tech seems very uninformed on the racers part.

What it seems like to me is a power play here, lets not kid ourselves. The writing was on the wall in TSM and TSO when certain people don't agree with decisions that have been made. In TSM I think it all started with the downpipe rule when one vendor wants to promote their product but it's not in the rules. Drum up support with your buddies so it's legal at the Nats. Now you have separate rules. It's been the same argument in TSO, no reason to hash that one out.

Plain and simple, this is and has always been about control of a successful points series. One group wants to control it at their events. This has been the same thing that has been going on for years and what many people complain about. History repeats itself.

Art.

 

[8AV8]

I am full of questions tonight, 8AV8 what is your last name? I have had a few people ask me who you are when discussing this thread on the phone and I could not answer, so thought we should clear that up. Beforeaskingmy last name is Asplund.
Thanks in advance, Kip

My phone number is 601-754-5615. Give me a call whenever you or the people you are speaking of would like to talk. I met you at BPG at the scales during peer tech.

As far as racing the class...I ran TSM at Reynolds last year. Were it not for a broken motor I would have made races this year. I am building the car TSM legal to race this class as we speak...I know I won't win. It won't be a big time set-up. But it'll be fun.

Jason asked two guys the same question. They both pointed the finger at each other. Why is getting clarification in this forum being pumped up as the end of TSM?

From what the "old timers" have posted...this is normal Buick stuff....its gone to the point of getting rid of Buicks and going to other cars for some of them.

If this is a problem that is repeating itself....why not fix it? I don't think Cal, Lonnie, Jack, or any other vendor/promoter or racer wants to see the class torn apart....and I can't see how posing questions could kill TSM.

 

[SGRIM]

Man, it has been killing me not to post...

I will say without a doubt, I have no questions of Chris's intent here. He made it plain to me in the beginning he was simply collecting the money to try to help raise more money and bring more attention and sponsorship to both classes... He actually set up a legal company to handle the money...

I have never raced TSM so I don't know how normal payouts where handled, another reason not to comment...

I can also see how if someone was told they were to get paid then they should get paid...

Communication went wrong... I don't know enough about what all went down to comment...

I would love to see both the classes grow, but things like this will not help...

To the best of my knowledge Scott is still the main TSM man right? He has devoted years to this thing right?

IF that changes, I think all the TSM racers should vote on a new director... That should be a long careful process. It takes a lot of personal time and effort to plan, pull off, and keep up with all the WORK that goes into this type of stuff... Time consuming is an understatement....

Lets see what Scott has to say?

Keep the spirit of love for the sport and the love of the cars:biggrin:

 

[quickt]

Man, it has been killing me not to post...

I will say without a doubt, I have no questions of Chris's intent here. He made it plain to me in the beginning he was simply collecting the money to try to help raise more money and bring more attention and sponsorship to both classes... He actually set up a legal company to handle the money...

I have never raced TSM so I don't know how normal payouts where handled, another reason not to comment...
:

The payouts have been paid at the end of the year for at least the last 2-3 years. Until Jason stepped forward not one racer that races the TSM class has had a problem. Others outside have had issues with the procedure.

I would love to see both the classes grow, but things like this will not help... :

This we all agree on

To the best of my knowledge Scott is still the main TSM man right? He has devoted years to this thing right?:

Scott is still in charge of the points series and will remain in charge. We are not sure at this point where Scott or the points series stands with the 2 GSCA events. Will still have one GSCA race left at the Reynolds race. I see that Jim has posted that the race is still on. Based on what has been posted I guess till Jim and Scott talk we wont know if the race in reynolds will still be a points series race. The reynolds race has become a great race where the racers lay all the cards on the table.

Lets see what Scott has to say? :

I talked to Scott last night. He has been on vacation. He said he would need a couple days to catch up but will respond.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Whatever happens, I hope the BG TSM race doesn't go down the same road as the BG TSO and BG TSE routes. It's nice to have a 15+ car field. I'd hate to see the rules changed to fit a certain car.

The last time I checked everone was as happy as an Ethiopian with a Big Mac in the TSO class and as far as the TSE class it may be small but those guys just continue to do their thing, their way. The rules will not be changed to fit any one car. I don't allow that type of chit, never have, never will. That is why the new RRA will be someone I know can and will get the job done WITHOUT any type of bias, hidden agenda or politicing. This is NOT to say that Scott Simpson hasn't done it right. What I believe is happening here is that with BG using a slightly different set of rules and not being part of the point series because of them has caused some things to slip through the cracks. I believe that with an independent RRA, meaning one that isn't associated with the point series, the TSM class will get someone who only has to concentrate on one issue instead of multiple issues. This can only benefit those that run the class at the GSCA events. I can't speak for the other clubs or events but I can tell you to keep watch and you will see payouts and prizes only increase for these events if all goes as planned.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Jim, Do you know who the new RRA for those races is going to be? If not who might be on the list to take the spot?
Thanks, Kip

Hi Kip, like my johnson the list is short. In all seriousness, I do have someone in mind and if all goes well we will be making an anouncement by the end of this week. I also believe that this class needs to come together and work together to continue to make it one of the premiere classes at EVERY event they race at. This class has always had a good showing. They have always pushed the envelope, exibited good sportsmanship and been a blast to watch. Ya'll are smart fellers, I am sure you realize two things and they are - One, there are allot of different personalities in this class due to it's size so sometimes you have to give a little and sometimes you can take a little but fussing and fighting on the internet is not benefitting anyone in this class. Two, by working together, making sacrifices and learning to forgive you can only help this class to grow. H*ll, ya'll only see each other a couple times a year to do what EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU LOVE TO DO and that is race your cars. Don't let this kinda crud divide ya'll. As everything else it will work itself out.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

I just wanted to touch on Lonnies question about the Reynolds race points issue. I don't and never had a problem with any of our races being in the point series. The problem that I am resolving is that the RRA for this class will have to be seperate from the Admin of the points series, that is all. This way, any money or prizes that are collected from sponsors for these two races will fall squarely on the shoulders of the RRA. This can only benefit the racers for that class. How; you ask. Well it's like this - The point series has it's own payout and as such it behoves them to collect money and prizes for their point series not so much the individual races themselves. This has left some of the racers feeling shorted. As such by having a seperate RRA (Who will work with the point series folks should they choose to include each race in their series.) the racers will collect money/prizes at the end of each race that the RRA has recruited from sponsors for that particular race. By keeping the two seperate in only increases the payouts for the racers themselves and keeps us from running into snafus such as this in the future. Obviously I can't speak for other events but will state that this policy has worked for us in the TSO class at the GSCA events and will work for the TSM class as well. Just do me a favor, sit back and watch. If things aren't as I say they will be then roast my can but until then have a little faith, grab a beer and get ur butts back to wrenchin instead of fussing here on the internet.

Jim C.

 

[BillyRValentine]

Ok, last but not least I would like to talk about the three in question here that have been placed on the hot seat.

Lonnie Diers - It is my understanding that Lonnie has stepped away from the point series and as such has no dealings with the money or anything else to do with running the series. This was done before this issue and as such to try and hold him accountable over an issue to do with the series would be wrong, imo.

Scott Simpson - I believe Scott to be forth-right and it is my opinion that he has done a good deal to promote the TSM class. I have heard from several people that he and Chris have come out of their own pockets to keep their word to their fellow racers when some were slow to pay. These things seem to be overlooked and forgotten when issues such as this one arise. I believe that Scott will do his best to resolve this situation but folks do have to understand that these folks don't do this fulltime and they do have lives to live and families to support outside of the Buick community.

Chris Lyons - I spoke at some length with Chris last night and do have a better grasp of where he is coming from. He assured me that there was no money or prizes collected on behalf of the BG Nats for the TSM class. The payouts for the TSM Point Series are for Point Series races only. He admits to having dropped the ball somewhat in his communication with the racers but at the same time I would hope that folks will try and understand that he is only human. He is upset that this had to come to the net due to the dogpile effect that always seems to follow. Guys, from what I have gathered the payouts for the TSM point series was at the end of last year as well. Now there was a lack of communication regarding this for 2008 and Chris accepts responsibility for it. He is currently working on setting up a more structured outline for the point series but obviously these things will take a little time. I don't believe that he is ripping anyone off but more-so trying to make sure that all of his ducks are in a row regarding sponsors and payouts. This too is something he is working on. He has already stated he will be setting up a plan that will be concise and let all involved know when and where payouts will be handled in the future. Change is not always easy or smooth but things will be resolved. Having said that I also believe that some good can come out of this.


To the racers - He will be in Oceola this weekend, I would suggest that if possible someone take the time and inetiative to set up a class meeting with both Chris and Scott to resolve the points series issues. Don't get off track with BS personal issues, put that aside and get to the meat of the issue and that is GETTING THE POINT SERIES BACK ON TRACK. Write the issues down if you have to. From the phone calls I have gotten a few of the issues are -

Payouts
Ladder schedule and the time it is posted in
Tech and Peer Tech
Rule Consistency
Making sure the Admin is approachable (Guys this is an issue that is easily resolved. If an RRA or Race Director p*sses you off by ignoring or smarting off then pull him aside right then or as soon as you can in person. Let him know what he did and how it upset you. People are human and when you are getting pulled in 100 different directions by 200 different people it can get overwhelming so sometimes they are not at the top of their game. You have to remember that rarely does anyone hunt them down to thank them for a job well done but will hunt them all over the track or pin them down on the internet when there is something wrong. Please keep in mind that you should always try and resolve these issues in person first before going to the internet-This has nothing to do with the issue with Jason.

Just remember people are human, they make mistakes. Time and what they do to resolve these mistakes tells you who they are.

Jim C.

 

[Team Banana]

If you're talking about me I don't recall this. If this is the way it went down I would like to apologize. This would definitely be out of character with me and it may have just been a bad time to catch me. I also don't handle the TSM ladder at these races but as the race director for the BPG I would've taken care of this if someone asked. Again I'm sorry if I was short with you at some point.

Chris I have no problem with you. I would just like the same respect I give you. Under no circumstance would i ever talk to you like that. The only reason I asked you about the ladder was because Scott wasn't there and I was told to ask you. As far as this money thing goes, we would like to put everybody on the trailer for free. Maybe even pay to put some on. Yeah you Hughes, just kidding Steve, sorta. If you ever need help at an event let me know we are at all of them that are close by. And just so every body knows we are bringing scales for tsm so don't come light.