TSO Player

[John Wilde]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TSO Player

Originally posted by Joe Lubrant
OC,

The PT 88 should not be confused with the GT 4788. The Mid-Frame PT88 is very familiar to every one, and is a T4 type flanged turbo.
The GT 4788 is a T5/T6 type large flanged turbo with larger compressor housing etc.

Legality of this turbo for TSO has not been established, since the rules seem to be a little vague. I guess when someone shows up with one on a Full Stage II Headed engine and really shows the potential of 1500hp vs 1200-1250 of the standard PT88 Midframe, it will get some attention

I guess it would be great for the Stage II headed Cars, but probably bad news for GN-1 Cars. Just my opinion

Joe,

Thanks for filling in the blanks. I know of a Champion Aluminum Headed car that picked up 20 rwhp with a new PT Turbo at the same low boost levels as with the PT-88. What turbo was that?

Thanks for your time the other day.
Twin GT-40 67MM don't sound bad.

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by Army MP
I am not calling you a liar, but I have NEVER seen a car CARRYING the wheels at the 1/8th mile point, unless it was made to do so!

PLEASE PROVE IT, i.e. vid.

I have seen cars that were still bouncing the front wheels at the 1/8th and didn't trip the beam.
Ask Richie Kibler I'm sure its happened to him.

I don't think Lee Thompson is telling a story. Just my opinion

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TSO Player

Originally posted by John Wilde
Joe,

Thanks for filling in the blanks. I know of a Champion Aluminum Headed car that picked up 20 rwhp with a new PT Turbo at the same low boost levels as with the PT-88. What turbo was that?

Thanks for your time the other day.
Twin GT-40 67MM don't sound bad.

John,

Not sure of official name, but it would be a modified PT88 Standard Mid-Frame that utilizes the newer style wheels. The Compressor and turbine housings remain the same type/style as on the standard configurations.

I believe months back someone posted that beta testing was being performed. I guess you have heard the results before me, so I can neither confirm or deny your 20 hp gain.

In any event the current PT 88 outward dimensions(Comp. cover & turbine housing) will still be imaintained to meet the intent of the rules, as we believe they are written.

The rule states "No Thumper Style Turbo's". I would ASSUME any turbo that appears to be in that type of catagory, produced by PTE, Turbonetics, Innovative or any others, would be scutinized. I believe the GSCA Technical Representatives would take the appropriate action.

 

[Lee Thompson]

Army MP

Go back to the original post and read the last sentence!!!!!!

 

[Dwayne]

Some people have no sense of humor

 

[John Larkin]

Don't concern yourself Lee. That guy nay-says on alot of threads. There are more wannabes than bees around here.

 

[EightSecV6]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TSO Player

Lets not forget to mention the LIMITED AVAILABILITY of the "new" mid-frame PT88.It is apparently only out there for testing but it will still be run in the class at BG simply because it is not any different appearing than what we have been allowed to run. It is allowed to be used and fits into the rules perfectly How many different frames are there? My race car definately has a Thumper style 98 on it, it is to be considered a large frame? The GT47-88 appears to be the same size as the Y2K turbo permitted to be used in the class which is on a smaller frame than a Thumper style such as mine. I dont want to sound like a crybaby but I dont plan on coming to a hatchet fight with a broken handle... Theoretically speaking, for example, if stage 2 heads were owned by only 1 or 2 racers and they were not available to anyone else, they would not be allowed either.

 

[EightSecV6]

What is to be used to determine "frame size"? Does anyone know?
Thanks,

 

[turbobuick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: TSO Player

Originally posted by odell4o8
new turbo? i have a old out dated pte 88 ........ pte told me that they hadnt made one yet, see you all in bg, i hope. oc,

Joe,
Who is going to run this new turbo this year? Why is it available to only a few? I know Odell has asked about it several times. I have made inquiries about about it and was told it wasn't available. I even went as far as changing turbine housings, headers and downpipe this year and it would've been nice to know there was a new turbo available before dumping money into making the changes I made.

Doesn't any new part have to be avialable by November 04 to be legal for the GSCA heads up classes? Didn't we go through this in 00 with the cantalope housing?

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TSO Player

Originally posted by turbobuick
Joe,
Who is going to run this new turbo this year? Why is it available to only a few? I know Odell has asked about it several times. I have made inquiries about about it and was told it wasn't available. I even went as far as changing turbine housings, headers and downpipe this year and it would've been nice to know there was a new turbo available before dumping money into making the changes I made.

Doesn't any new part have to be avialable by November 04 to be legal for the GSCA heads up classes? Didn't we go through this in 00 with the cantalope housing?

Didn't see anything in the rules about November 04 requirements for TSO?????????????

I don't know who will be running the GT 4788 turbo, Y2K's etc.

I don't know who will be running the Modified PT 88.

All I know is I fought to keep the rules the same as previous years
and keep the playing field equal for both GN-1 & Stage II Cars.

Now that the rules have been changed to allow Y2k or reasonable facsimilies to appease a minority. The original intent of the class has changed big time and NOT for the best.

One of the individuals that fought for y2k's etc. isn't even going to run the class.......go figure?

My personal opinion is the class has sort of gotten CR_PPED UP from its original intent & naming.

Wheelie Bars, Wings, Bigger Turbo's etc. etc. were in my opinion a bad decision for allowance in TSO.

I don't make the rules.

Like Billy I'm not crying or whinning.......Just voicing my opinion.

My car will be there and will be running the Standard type PT88 just like Odie & others.

We will be there with a lot less, but will make the best of it

 

[turbobuick]

It is in the rules for all of the other classes I didn't think TSO was any different. Especially considering the PT88TSE turbo was the reason that rule was even made.

I agree with you the class rules have gotten away from the original intent. Problem was no one participated with the origianl rules. Hopefully this year will be different and we have people show and I'll actually be allowed to run the class without being protested.

I'll be there with the old style 88 as well. It just would be nice to know that there are other options and what exactly they are, and that they are available to everyone and not just a select few.

Personally I could care less about who shows up with what and what others run.

 

[JCotton]

Well Joe, you could have put my name up there, I don't mind.......no need to beat around the bush.

One of the individuals that fought for y2k's etc. isn't even going to run the class.......go figure?

Let me just say this... the Y2K turbo is not much different than what you and others have been running for the last 3 years or so.... only diff being it uses a T5 flange instead of a T4. This has been hashed out over and over, sorry if it bothers you, but it is only fair to allow other turbos besides PTE to run. Sucks to have a fair playing field....... But I'm sure you will work around it and have something that is"bigger" I have compared older T4 PTE exhaust housings with mine and dimensions are comparable.

All I know is I fought to keep the rules the same as previous years nd keep the playing field equal for both GN-1 & Stage II Cars.

As I have too, but unfortunately, we were not in the drivers seat to do what was necessary..... the turbo was supposed to keep things in check, but it hasn't and now the show must go on. Lets face it, It's for the fun of it, certainly not for the money. As for your above quote, whether I race or not in TSO unfortunately is a decision I will make when the time comes.

Now that the rules have been changed to allow Y2k or reasonable facsimilies to appease a minority. The original intent of the class has changed big time and NOT for the best

ok Joe, enough whining about the Y2k....... I'll be at BG just like you with a lot less than most everyone in TSO, including you and OC......

 

[EightSecV6]

Just to clear the air, my post was not directed toward any individual, I spoke with OC about this today and I only wanted to throw my .02 in on the current turbo situation and I surely hope I didnt pis$ anyone off. My goal is the same as everyone that intends to race in this class.... to be the fastest BOTTOM LINE. As Jack said, it definately is not about the money, but I surely dont want to drag a car 900 miles one way to lose.
Sorry,

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by JCotton

Well Joe, you could have put my name up there, I don't mind.......no need to beat around the bush.

Let me just say this... ................................................................."

...... I'll be at BG just like you with a lot less than most everyone in TSO, including you and OC......

So as I read between the lines.........You are going to race in TSO

Are you going to run Wheelie Bars & a Pumpkin Orange Wing

 

[EightSecV6]

Originally posted by Joe Lubrant
a Pumpkin Orange Wing

No you're getting personal Joe...... You surely must be talking about hot wings from Toot's, they are the same color!!!!!! I'll be RUNNING after I eat them for sure.

 

[baadgn]

Originally posted by Joe Lubrant
So as I read between the lines.........You are going to race in TSO

Are you going to run Wheelie Bars & a Pumpkin Orange Wing

Now That is funny!!!!!!

 

[Otto J]

Originally posted by baadgn
Now That is funny!!!!!!

 

[Joe Lubrant]

Originally posted by EightSecV6
Just to clear the air, my post was not directed toward any individual, I spoke with OC about this today and I only wanted to throw my .02 in on the current turbo situation and I surely hope I didnt pis$ anyone off. My goal is the same as everyone that intends to race in this class.... to be the fastest BOTTOM LINE. As Jack said, it definately is not about the money, but I surely dont want to drag a car 900 miles one way to lose.
Sorry,

Bill,

People can say what they want about me trying to keep the Turbo's sizes & configuration types to a bare minimum.

I do this because I see in the very near future that a GN-1 Headed car will no longer be competitive in the class.

You I'm sure would agee that the smaller heads will max out alot sooner than Stage II heads.

Nothing against the Stage II boys, but the rules as written will give the advantage to a Stage II set-up. Some will disagree, but that is because up till now most have not gotten there act together, and you know what I mean.

You will also agree that 88mm rotating assemblies in larger compressor covers & turbine housings will produce more flow & less back pressure hence more power capablity.

Frame/Bearing housing type is not as important as the end packaging. i.e. a GT4788 which you indicated as a Mid-Type frame, does have a larger and more efficient Compressor & Turbine housing it has easily exhibited HP in the 1500hp+ range compared to 1200-1250 for the standard 88 T4.

Even if you packaged the same 4788 wheels in the standard package you would see a significant loss in efficiency. You can always try and stuff 10# of Cr_p in a 5# bag, but you will not get all of it!

I doubt that GN-1 heads can flow the potential of 1500hp do you?

I dont think anyone would build an engine to produce over 1250hp flywheel with GN-1's...It's amazing that we have been able to extract the power from them so far, but the limits are about maxed.

This statement may not be received well, but so far a GN-1 headed car has set the Bar for TSO performace. Some of the other larger headed cars that for one reason or another are not performing to their potential, feel the only way to go is bigger turbo.

I don't understand that philosophy....its like I can't get better traction so I need bigger tires.....instead of tuning/fixing their suspension!!

BTW Bill you can be the fastest in the class if you want.......I just want to be the quickest

 

[EightSecV6]

Joe,
We have discussed this at length. I agree, the S2 heads have a distinct advantage with the larger turbos but it is hard to scrutinize the rules so closely to allow only one vendors turbo.We are not giving up on the Champion heads and I feel we can be competitive with them at TSO weight. I am loyal to PTE's turbos and have been since my car got it's first 9 second timeslip over 10 years ago,before other vendors even existed or had a turbo as large as a 70mm. I am sure there will be issues with several combinations at the GS Nats UNLESS those combinations do not perform as well as the cars with the hybrid turbos etc. I do not want to be put in a position where I feel I am at a distinct disadvantage because I couldnt purchase a superior product that someone else has. You know what turbo we have, we intend to run it, if the 4 or 5 other guys in the same boat are not permitted to race in the class for whatever reason, it will be between 3 cars or so.
Do those headlight covers qualify as "factory body lines"? LOL!!!

 

[JCotton]

You surely must be talking about hot wings from Toot's, they are the same color!!!!!! I'll be RUNNING after I eat them for sure.

Careful you don't choke on dem "orange wings" from Toots, I hear they can be hot when it counts........

I dont want to sound like a crybaby but I dont plan on coming to a hatchet fight with a broken handle...

I'm with ya there Bill. About the only thing worse than a broken handle is opening a "window" on a cold nite....