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SignUp Now!Originally posted by John Larkin
I don't want to register over there but review the rules and decide for yourself on whose car they were based. It's easy if you know who runs in the class.
Originally posted by Nick Micale
Strange how critics "raise eyebrows" conviently on a specific item, but omit other significant requirements that go along with them.![]()
A 3.8 stage block is allowed in TSS which also has a 240 cu.in. limit and no alum heads. Last I checked, power is made in the heads, not the block.
When the TSM class was established and brought to life a few years ago, it was SPECIFICALLY for 3.8 stock block competition. Other items/rules were hammered out by racers, not specifically GSCA members, and co-ordinated by Lonnie and Scott. They then presented this format to the GSCA and thus began the TSM series race event.
Originally posted by jsta6
Thanks Nick.
I am not an engine builder, but I have heard that the stage 1 block has webbing that is stronger and there is more nickel in the block. And I would think you can do more with having 12 bolt heads instead of 8.>>>>>>>>>>>>The heads only have 8 bolts holes so there is NO advantage for the 14 bolt block and the block itself makes no power.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
To me, the question I have to ask is; "what is the purpose of the TSS class?". It seems to me it is the junior of the other classes (TSE, TSM and TSO). Meaning, more "entry level". More geared towards the "average Joe". >>>>>>>>>>>It is one of the oldest classes and the participants (like in TSM agree on the rules) and there used to be more than one car in the class that ran a stage block. There is likely only one car there now running one but that is because he chooses not to step the car up to the next class. When you start trying to go backwards with the rules you lose participants not gain them.... <<<<<<<<<<<<
I personally don't know anyone that owns a stage block and it seems to me that turbo and head upgrades are more readily available then stage blocks.
You build engines; Do you think that "a Stage 1 block has no power advantages over a 109 block"? >>>>>>>>>>The potential is there but NO the block will not make more power when limited to a stock appearing turbo.. I am going faster than all the cars in that class with a 109 block. Most people bypass TSS because it is so restrictive compared to TSM.. That is why I stepped up from TSS to TSM... <<<<<<<<<<<<
(FWIW, I have heard of cars with stock, unported heads in the mid 10's.)
John, I am also curious to know who might run a Stage block. I know there were only about 5 running the class this year. I also hope they allow alcohol injection like the TSM is considering also.Originally posted by John Larkin
I don't want to register over there but review the rules and decide for yourself on whose car they were based. It's easy if you know who runs in the class.
Originally posted by broke1
..........................And Nick,seems a few of the GSCA classes support Red A.
Originally posted by re-evaluating
My comments above for what it is worth. Dave
Last I checked, power is made in the heads, not the block.
Originally posted by jsta6
Thanks for your reply.
But isn't the stage block "stronger", and if the block is stronger, can you not make more power?
Not when you are limited by such a small turbo. A stock block can easily handle the power that a 66 mm turbo can put out.
"When you start trying to go backwards with the rules you lose participants not gain them.... "
I disagree with that. And I would not call the move "backwards".
It is the same kind of move backwards as if they reduce the cubic inch of the engines in TSM as being discussed. Guys have spent money to build to the existing rules and then you pull the rug out that is going backwards in my opinion.
"The potential is there but NO the block will not make more power when limited to a stock appearing turbo"
I don't know if a 3 bolt turbo is the limiting factor now a days. They are more advanced then they were years ago.
yes but TSS is limited to a Garret TA stock housing and the biggest wheel that can fit within the rules is a 66 I believe.
"I am going faster than all the cars in that class with a 109 block."
Not sure what your point is here. Are you saying TSM cars with 109 blocks run faster then TSS cars with stage blocks? TSM allows front mount intercoolers, bigger turbos, fiberglass, aluminum heads, bigger throttle body, optional MAF, thumbwheell chips, TH400, aftermarket shifters, etc, etc.
Right so how is the stage block any power advantage? The stock block properly prepared will take all the abuse that a 66 turbo will give out is my point.
"Most people bypass TSS because it is so restrictive compared to TSM.. That is why I stepped up from TSS to TSM... "
I think this might contradict your statement about how changing the rules in TSS will be a step "backwards".
I don't see how taking a stage block out of the rules will change anything except cause any racer that has a TSS car with a stage block to have to spend a lot of money because you wanted to boot him out.. The block in NOT a limiting factor. I left TSS because I wanted to run a FAST system and they didn't want to go there so I stepped up. I agree I think the GSCA needs to allow some of the new technology in all around, but taking the stage block out won't change anything. Red can go just as fast with a 109 block as he can with a stage block.
Originally posted by L8R V8R
My .02 on the block not making more power. Don't forget that stage 1 heads can be used on a stage 1 block and I'm quite sure that they will make more power.
Originally posted by re-evaluating
Yeap stage one heads can be used on a stage one block or on a stock block but there are still only 8 head bolts.. Yes I was running stage 1 heads on my stock block. Yes they will make more power so should they be outlawed also?