Tuned for alky minus alky equals bad news

[Mike70gtx]

First time to track in quite awhile. I have a check list on my wall so I don't forget things. I will need one when I get to the track. I put in a new a/c compressor and tried to get done in time to go to track. Got it in but a bare wire by compressor blew a fuse. I changed it out and off to the track. I did not realize that the alky power came unhooked when I switched fuses. I'm sure you see where this is going. I have a knock gauge and scanmaster that I usually glue my eyes to. Anyhow, not sure how far down track but serious knock. I got out and it seemed fine. I decided to try one more with alky. Was running good till about 3 rd gear, knock and smoke. Shut it down and had someone pull me to pits. I decided to start it to get it on the trailer and it didn't sound bad but was smoking (oil, blue). Then it started making some metallic sounds. Anyhow these are the plugs in #1 and #3. #1 is missing the whole electrode. I did compression test and #1 is 15#s and #2 is 150#s. Do I need to evaluate anything else or just pull the motor. What is your guess of damage?
I would recommend to myself an audible knock gauge and a hard wired alky control.

 

[1KWIK6]

Ouch! I would pull the driver's side head and see what kind of damage (if any) the pistons may have. You might get lucky and just need a new head gasket.

 

[Boost231]

wow, sorry to see this

just pull the motor its going to have to come out either way

 

[Daniel Jost]

That is some serious spark plug damage, in a similar scenario i had a Alky pump fail on my car and blasted a head gasket out with absolutely no other damage to the car so i would quite go on saying pull the engine out. On the other hand that spark plug damage is very severe!

 

[Mike70gtx]

I put in RJC bullet proof gaskets when I had it out 3500 miles ago. I was a little fearful of whether to got to track and take a chance on breaking. It was running so strong on the street. Then a couple of friends wanted to go to track. One with the new mustang and the other just put twin turbos on his 370Z. I figured I needed to enjoy it. I'm curious to see what happened without a standard fuse for my headgaskets. . It will probably be a month before I get to it.

 

[GNRick]

How did the 370Z with twin turbo's run? Am I the only one wanting to know this? Sorry to hear about your engine damage.

 

[jasjamz]

That is some serious spark plug damage, in a similar scenario i had a Alky pump fail on my car and blasted a head gasket out with absolutely no other damage to the car so i would quite go on saying pull the engine out. On the other hand that spark plug damage is very severe!

That is not a Turbo v6 head gasket. They lack the bridge in the long water passage. I had them on my car before and one started seeping antifreeze under boost . Hope you didn't use that type to put it back together.

I have been through the no alky on a pass and knocked a tip off a plug. Id just pull it since you will need to replace both gaskets. It can be done in the car but its not fun. With it out you can check the bearings on those rods too.

 

[turbojd]

Ouch! I would pull the driver's side head and see what kind of damage (if any) the pistons may have. You might get lucky and just need a new head gasket.

I did the same thing once on my GN (ate the sparkplug electrode) but on the #6 cylinder, It ended up chewing away at the top of my piston. I had to replace the piston, I did the rod bearings while I was at it.

 

[berserker6]

how did the 370z with twin turbo's run? Am i the only one wanting to know this? Sorry to hear about your engine damage.

x2

 

[Turbo-Archie]

I would recommend to myself an audible knock gauge and a hard wired alky control.

How about one of those obnoxious big yellow shift lights that comes on with the Alky.

No light = no alky



...

 

[berserker6]

How about one of those obnoxious big yellow shift lights that comes on with the Alky.

No light = no alky



...

All that and it may still be to late.

 

[Clark6]

First time to track in quite awhile. I have a check list on my wall so I don't forget things. I will need one when I get to the track. I put in a new a/c compressor and tried to get done in time to go to track Anyhow, not sure how far down track but serious knock. I got out and it seemed fine. I decided to try one more with alky. Was running good till about 3 rd gear, knock and smoke. Shut it down and had someone pull me to pits. I decided to start it to get it on the trailer and it didn't sound bad but was smoking (oil, blue). Then it started making some metallic sounds. What is your guess of damage?
I would recommend to myself an audible knock gauge and a hard wired alky control.

Just curious, how much timing and boost were you at when all of this took place?

 

[Turbo-Archie]

All that and it may still be to late.

I agree but at least you would know if the pump was working.


It really needs a pressure switch on the alky where it will shut the motor off if the required pressure isn't met. Something like that anyway..



..

 

[GNRick]

I agree but at least you would know if the pump was working.


It really needs a pressure switch on the alky where it will shut the motor off if the required pressure isn't met. Something like that anyway..



..

I thought some kind of a sensor could be invented where if, for instance, TPS=3.5 volts (or boost= 12 lbs) and no alky then a light or audible signal will come on, so this would be before engine damage occurs. Someone posted their ideas, similar to the above scenario, and John Spina (I believe) explained why it wasn't do-able. You wouldn't want the engine to shut down in case you were on the highway when it happened.

 

[haywire4130]

you're on the right track for a fail-safe. i'm gonna devise a system for my T after i replace the head gaskets. it's going to have some kind of alcohol safe pressure switch for the alky line and a pneumatic soleniod on the boost line going to the top port on my wastegate (tial external). basically it would be wired to not allow boost pressure to the top wastegate port unless there is pressure in the alky line. this would make it only boost as high as the spring in the gate allows without alky pressure. (much safer than shutting off the motor) i wouldn't trust just wiring it to allow it when there's power to the pump because if the pump siezed or there was a leak that would still fry the gaskets. i welcome any feedback good or bad if anyone can see any obvious flaws in my plan.

 

[haywire4130]

i just reread my post and pictured the whole thing. i think the only problem would be if the alky system lost pressure while the system was already at peak boost, the solenoid would close and trap pressure in the top of the wastegate. i think it would work perfect if i set it up to vent the pressure to atmosphere if no alky pressure was present so if you lost alky during a hard pass it would vent the pressure and the gate would open lowering the boost to the spring governed pressure as stated above. actually if i vented it to atmosphere it would cause a boost leak which would mean less boost going to the lower port which would increase boost pressure anyways. ok... would need a 3 port solenoid that would allow pressure thru when alky is present and would close/vent to atmosphere on the port side (not like a ship!) with no alky present. i like it

 

[jasjamz]

Guys a fail safe really isnt needed. YOU are the fail safe and the red/green light is the indicator you need to watch.
The Scanmaster is going to show you knock retard, and the 02/WB info.

Now if you negelected to, check the alky level, see the low alky light, didnt hook it up, or hit the test button before you stepped in it then race fuel is still available.:smile: But then you may want a fuel pressure/volume fail safe.:biggrin:


Now 12 psi and timing of 19/17 is an even safer option...

 

[GNRick]

Guys a fail safe really isnt needed. YOU are the fail safe and the red/green light is the indicator you need to watch.
The Scanmaster is going to show you knock retard, and the 02/WB info.

Now if you negelected to, check the alky level, see the low alky light, didnt hook it up, or hit the test button before you stepped in it then race fuel is still available.:smile: But then you may want a fuel pressure/volume fail safe.:biggrin:


Now 12 psi and timing of 19/17 is an even safer option...

By the time your gauges/lights/beepers indicate a problem and you react to it, it's too late. Ask me how I know.

 

[WSLN 6]

The failsafe already exists, it's built into the ISAC boost/meth controller. Works great. With my boost set at 20psi, when the low alky light is triggered it drops the boost to 7psi. Good stuff.

 

[GNBRETT]

By the time your gauges/lights/beepers indicate a problem and you react to it, it's too late.

Yep