Twin Turbo Garrett Grand National Demo Car

[racemybuick]

so wild that the car was alky injected in 83 from the factory!!!! that detonation must have been a pain in the @$$ to deal with!!!! lol... I want it sooooooooo bad!!!!!


John

 

[turbofish38]

Here's 2 more threads that my interest you.
I'd almost bet that your brother couldn't tell the difference between a Riviera and Regal since they almost like alike in some respects. I hope your browser lets you magnify the 2 pages I posted in the first link.

The Twin Turbo Myth - TurboBuicks.com

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/199443-where-twin-turbo-gnx-urban-legend-came.html

 

[notacarlo]

That was not the Indy engine. The block was, but almost nothing else.

 

[notacarlo]

Another....

 

[turbodave231]

That last picture is not and Indy car, It is an Indy Light car. NA......no turbo!!!

All the "Indy" cars were turboed.

DR

 

[notacarlo]

Tomato.....:biggrin:

I wouldn't mind building up a n/a GN with that motor.

 

[joe_schindler]

That last picture is not and Indy car, It is an Indy Light car. NA......no turbo!!!

All the "Indy" cars were turboed.

DR

Could be an American Racing Series car; as they were till the end of 1990. The name changed for 1991 to Indy Lights Series.

 

[joe_schindler]

I called a friend who used to work for GM in the mid to late 80’s; and he personally knew nothing about the car. But; he did say GM, Garrett, and all the venders blew a lot of money on things like that as advertisements; and he expected that would have been one of their toys.

 

[BLACK MAGIC RACING]

That was not the Indy engine. The block was, but almost nothing else.

that would make a cool barbecue... HAHAHAHA

 

[1BADTT]

Here ya go....

That car was @ the 2005 GS Nationals. Pretty trick indeed...

 

[youngstr]

Here ya go....

does or did anyone manufacture a header set to run a hotair twin set up like this? how about the throttle linkages or intake ? would gm release the build specs and measures so an after market company could fab together a kit for the hotair cars?

This is crazy this should have been the hotair motor in 84 and 85, the gear heads back then would have when apeshat over this type of set up....factory alky?? OMG.

 

[charlief1]

That engine is a 1 off experimental design done by GM to put in an Indy pace car. No one can copy it because of patent rights.

 

[youngstr]

Yep and the sad part is that instead of allowing someone to produce the motor as a crate offering or a kit for conversion that they could get a percentage off of and make some money, no, they would rather keep the specs safe and not make any money, isn't that the kind of thinking that made them almost go belly up in the first place?

I know what you're saying, and they have the legal right, but whats the point its tech thats 20 plus years old, why not make a few bucks instead of hiding it away.

 

[joe_schindler]

Boys and girls:

If I built a twin-turbo 252 CID Stage II engine; and it only made 410 HP; I’d want to keep it a secret too.

Keeping secrets wasn’t what put GM in bankruptcy; it was bragging about being the best when they clearly weren’t. Can anyone say Saturn or HUMMER?

Joe

 

[youngstr]

Boys and girls:

If I built a twin-turbo 252 CID Stage II engine; and it only made 410 HP; I’d want to keep it a secret too.

Keeping secrets wasn’t what put GM in bankruptcy; it was bragging about being the best when they clearly weren’t. Can anyone say Saturn or HUMMER?

Joe

This was a HOTAIR stage II and its making 410 on 10lbs of boost, no intercooler just alky and not the 23 to 28 lbs of boost you see ppl running to make big numbers, I think this setup has some merit, its designed for indy, you know drive around at high r's and boost for a couple of hrs in a circle without blowing up or melting, thats alot longer than 10 or 12 seconds down the stip. Just saying if you're looking for some hp but mild street manners this motor probably wouldn't disappoint, I'd gladly put it in my hotair.

 

[joe_schindler]

The above 4.1 was designed to make it about 20 laps at Indy; at a speed of at least 60 MPH; and not to exceed 100 MPH. You know; drive a few VIP’s around an oval during caution laps; with maybe a pretty face in the back seat during the parade laps. You didn’t even need a helmet in the Riviera. The ad even says it’s not a race car. 70 HP would have been plenty.

There have been plenty of Stage II engines that made 400 HP with 0 PSI of boost. There have even been more than a few 283 and 289 V8’s that made 400 HP without melting. 410 at 10 PSI isn’t pushing anywhere near the exciting envelope. It might look cool on the engine stand; but far from practical.

 

[youngstr]

The above 4.1 was designed to make it about 20 laps at Indy; at a speed of at least 60 MPH; and not to exceed 100 MPH. You know; drive a few VIP’s around an oval during caution laps; with maybe a pretty face in the back seat during the parade laps. You didn’t even need a helmet in the Riviera. The ad even says it’s not a race car. 70 HP would have been plenty.

There have been plenty of Stage II engines that made 400 HP with 0 PSI of boost. There have even been more than a few 283 and 289 V8’s that made 400 HP without melting. 410 at 10 PSI isn’t pushing anywhere near the exciting envelope. It might look cool on the engine stand; but far from practical.

I'm not arguing that the motor and car were fabbed up for a dog and pony show for vips and such, I was trying to say that the motor itself, if the idea of a twin turbo twin trottlebody and the computer managing both mafs, and the alchy stock had made its way into production, maybe not as a 4.1 maybe as a stock block size 3.8 either way.... if it would have made it into production 25 years ago, look what happened to the 3.8 that they did produce, lots of changes and improvements during the run till 87 and then the aftermarket companies furthered the improvements till we are in present day with better fuel management, better turbos ect.

so of coarse you could build a much more powerful stage II motor now, no doubt, but back then 25 years ago for something that could possibly end up in production that was pretty impressive.

its not that unusual for pace car tech to end up in production models, or in limited edition runs for example no more GNs after 87 , but they found a way to use the 3.8 turbo motor by giving it to pontiac to use in the 89 se limit run numbered car. did the typhoon use the 4.1 block? what about the syclone, I'm not familiar with the specs on those I just hear them refered to as part of the turbo family and see them at many buick events.

right now if you want twins you have to get parts customized you have to get people to fab stuff, if they would have went with a twin motor there would be stock twin parts to be had, headers piping brackets, ect.

All in all, I like the motor, not really caring about the 4.1 part its the dual throttlebodies and twins sitting up on those custom headers and the stock computer controling both mafs and alchy spray, its just a cool setup but its just my opinion, and everyone has one of those.

 

[joe_schindler]

If you really wanted to run 2 MAF’s; you could easily run 2 computers and 2 wiring harnesses. The Indy cars of that era got by with a single turbo; and 800 HP. I’m not sure if they even had computer fuel management on them in 81-84. Building a single turbo 800 HP Stage II was possible even back then. I would hope we could do better today; but the connecting rods are probably the weak link rather than the number of turbos.

I can’t think of much pace car tech that has made it to production; maybe seat belts. There’s probably something. The Brand-X stuff is all Brand-X. Not the same 4.1.

If you want twins; there’s probably SBC headers available on eBay. Like they say; nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Lots of diesel engines with twins these days; but to reduce lag; not for looks.

I agree; it’s a cool looking engine. It’s just that in the last 25 years or so; technology has helped make uninspiring engines rather competitive.

 

[hesermon]

I think no one would argue that the twin turbo setup on that engine looks cool!. But my question is WHY all the fuss over finding a way to "make twins work" when there are plenty of examples out there of one big turbo providing 30 lbs. of boost, properly routed with the right amount of fuel into a V6 or small block V8 that produce just crazy horsepower. It just gets annoying after a while that at literately every event I take my GN to I hear "oh yea, I know all about those cars, is that the twin turbo version?" I just say "naw, it's just the basic 800 horsepower version, the twins were all reserved for the FBI!"

 

[hesermon]

For history buffs though, the Indy version was quite an achievement for Buick. But for those that really remember why they only lasted a couple of years and didn't do too well, they made great HP and went really fast for about 350 to 400 miles, unfortunately however, Indy is a 500 mile race.