Dreamcar86
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
Since we have all hyjacked your thread I was curious if you ever got your question answered?
Have you checked here yet? : GBodyParts.com Online
Vacuum brakes conversion
- Thread starter ChavoLC2
- Start date
Since we have all hyjacked your thread I was curious if you ever got your question answered?
Have you checked here yet? : GBodyParts.com Online
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Suipercharging A Vacuum Booster
I'm Sorry Mr 8av8. Can You Clarify Your Questions? I Will Be Happy To Answer Any Of Them. Btw, What Is The Name Of Your Company?
I'm Sorry Mr 8av8. Can You Clarify Your Questions? I Will Be Happy To Answer Any Of Them. Btw, What Is The Name Of Your Company?
And i repeat...
"Power Brake Service Has Been In Business Since 1950. Hardly A Huckster Type. We Are The Only Appointed Bosch Distributor For New Hydroboosts In The U.s. Not Only The Hydroboost, But The Entire Line Of Bosch Brake And Engine Parts. "
So I can't buy a bosch o2 sensor at autozone???? BS
Since you choose to answer my question with a question, allow me to retort... What does the name of my company have to do with the fact that you can provide no real comparitive test data on Turbo Regals? If you are truly interested in the name of my company PM me.
If you point is I don't build brakes for a living , you're right.
Does this mean I can't hold 12 lbs of boost w/o a trans brake? HELL NO!
:biggrin: :biggrin:
Oh Yeah, Since you're answering questions. How many feet does it take to stop a fully equipped 1987 GN thats going 70 MPH with:
A)PM brakes
B)Vac brakes
C)HB brakes
"Power Brake Service Has Been In Business Since 1950. Hardly A Huckster Type. We Are The Only Appointed Bosch Distributor For New Hydroboosts In The U.s. Not Only The Hydroboost, But The Entire Line Of Bosch Brake And Engine Parts. "
So I can't buy a bosch o2 sensor at autozone???? BS
Since you choose to answer my question with a question, allow me to retort... What does the name of my company have to do with the fact that you can provide no real comparitive test data on Turbo Regals? If you are truly interested in the name of my company PM me.
If you point is I don't build brakes for a living , you're right.
Does this mean I can't hold 12 lbs of boost w/o a trans brake? HELL NO!
:biggrin: :biggrin:Oh Yeah, Since you're answering questions. How many feet does it take to stop a fully equipped 1987 GN thats going 70 MPH with:
A)PM brakes
B)Vac brakes
C)HB brakes
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Conversion
O.K., Any one out there with a vacuum brake G.N. that has "brake issues", and can provide a car for a before and after test? How about a P/M car with occasional brake light, or even one that works perfectly. It would be great if a magazine writer could document any testing done. If not, then the owner of the vehicle would act as the third party. I build brakes for quadrapalegics. They can stop a 6000lb van with only the weight of their hand on a hand control. As far as the H/B creating enough pressure to expand the caliper, yes, they can. Do you have to push that hard on every stop? No. The friction should be there to stop, before spiking the pressure. Can calipers take it? Yes, they are cast from "armasteel" not iron. An 8" dual dia, with 10" of vacuum available, would only generate approx 600-850psi. As an aside, S10's have used a 12" dual dia vac booster since 89. Same size as an Impala. The Regal and G.N. uses the same brake parts as an S10. except they have a 8" dual dia. Big difference. I would think that the G.N. is much heavier than the S10, but it ended up with the 8" unit. So, we need a G.N. for the big test. Anyone?
O.K., Any one out there with a vacuum brake G.N. that has "brake issues", and can provide a car for a before and after test? How about a P/M car with occasional brake light, or even one that works perfectly. It would be great if a magazine writer could document any testing done. If not, then the owner of the vehicle would act as the third party. I build brakes for quadrapalegics. They can stop a 6000lb van with only the weight of their hand on a hand control. As far as the H/B creating enough pressure to expand the caliper, yes, they can. Do you have to push that hard on every stop? No. The friction should be there to stop, before spiking the pressure. Can calipers take it? Yes, they are cast from "armasteel" not iron. An 8" dual dia, with 10" of vacuum available, would only generate approx 600-850psi. As an aside, S10's have used a 12" dual dia vac booster since 89. Same size as an Impala. The Regal and G.N. uses the same brake parts as an S10. except they have a 8" dual dia. Big difference. I would think that the G.N. is much heavier than the S10, but it ended up with the 8" unit. So, we need a G.N. for the big test. Anyone?
I'm not "Mr Red". And I have a GN(DO YOU!!!!). It has vac brakes with no trans brake. I can hold 12+ lbs of boost on the line!
You also have your guinea pig...cause I gotta TTA also.
But you answered my question...you haven't done any testing on a TR or you wouldn't be asking us for test vehicles
And I quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power Brake Service Has Been In Business Since 1950. Hardly A Huckster Type. We Are The Only Appointed Bosch Distributor For New Hydroboosts In The U.s. Not Only The Hydroboost, But The Entire Line Of Bosch Brake And Engine Parts.
So I can't buy a bosch o2 sensor at autozone???? BS
So you've been in business for 57 years and have no hard facts to back up your claims and want John DiCarlo to do the testing for you??? I wonder why he called you a huckster. You want to prove your point once and for all...
I got the cars for the test. Come down here and prove it. You are willing to make money off of this board with unsubstansiated claims you can't put hard facts to. I'll help you out. Come here and use my cars for test purposes. The door is WIDE open for you to put yor money where your mouth is. We will video it or whatever it takes to be scientific and prove it. And if you're right you will truly be able to back up your claims and make well DESERVED money from the people on this forum.
Whatcha wanna do?
Did you read this thread?
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Conversion
I have already proved it 10,000 times in California. I have proved it a few hundred times with Summit Racing's customers. Mr. Dreamcar is delighted with his stopping power, and his car has stock brakes, with only a hydroboost. I'm not sure why you are not sure. Every car is different, but G.N.'s are somewhat similiar. It sure seems odd, that, here on this forum, the number one topic is "brake problems". Vacuum boosters need vacuum. No secret. 20" actually. Turbocharging is the opposite of vacuum. No secret. 83-85 T types came with a Hydroboost. Why? No secret. 86-87 G.N.'s came with a P/M. None of the Buick T-types came with a vacuum booster from the factory. No secret. Why? The 8" dual dia vac booster was designed by Delco in 1977. Buick could have thrown that on the G.N. They did not. The Powermaster uses an electric pump to pump brake fluid under high pressure. That's sounds great, until, 10 or 20 years later, the pumps wear out, and they quit making them. The hydroboost has been around since 1973, and will stop 16,000lb motorhomes and overloaded dualies. Why do you not believe it could stop a 3700lb (or so) car? Hydroboosts on trucks use a 1.562" master cyl. Putting a 1.125" master on it makes it even easier to push. The master cyl is easily replaceable. The H/B is rebuildable. Maybe, after 200,000 miles the seals could leak. I have also built thousands of vacuum boosters, some modified for more power, and, I have 3 "VACUUM" test benches to test them with. I have written 300,000 invoices over the years. How many vehicles is that, and how many people did I meet, doing that? You can't remain in the same business for 57 years, scamming everyone, and I don't even see the reason for your attacking me. I have been very straightforward here. No one here, who has bought from me, or asked questions, felt "scammed". So, where is this coming from?
I have already proved it 10,000 times in California. I have proved it a few hundred times with Summit Racing's customers. Mr. Dreamcar is delighted with his stopping power, and his car has stock brakes, with only a hydroboost. I'm not sure why you are not sure. Every car is different, but G.N.'s are somewhat similiar. It sure seems odd, that, here on this forum, the number one topic is "brake problems". Vacuum boosters need vacuum. No secret. 20" actually. Turbocharging is the opposite of vacuum. No secret. 83-85 T types came with a Hydroboost. Why? No secret. 86-87 G.N.'s came with a P/M. None of the Buick T-types came with a vacuum booster from the factory. No secret. Why? The 8" dual dia vac booster was designed by Delco in 1977. Buick could have thrown that on the G.N. They did not. The Powermaster uses an electric pump to pump brake fluid under high pressure. That's sounds great, until, 10 or 20 years later, the pumps wear out, and they quit making them. The hydroboost has been around since 1973, and will stop 16,000lb motorhomes and overloaded dualies. Why do you not believe it could stop a 3700lb (or so) car? Hydroboosts on trucks use a 1.562" master cyl. Putting a 1.125" master on it makes it even easier to push. The master cyl is easily replaceable. The H/B is rebuildable. Maybe, after 200,000 miles the seals could leak. I have also built thousands of vacuum boosters, some modified for more power, and, I have 3 "VACUUM" test benches to test them with. I have written 300,000 invoices over the years. How many vehicles is that, and how many people did I meet, doing that? You can't remain in the same business for 57 years, scamming everyone, and I don't even see the reason for your attacking me. I have been very straightforward here. No one here, who has bought from me, or asked questions, felt "scammed". So, where is this coming from?
TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
POWERBRAKEBOB
You just don't get it.
It’s too much money for some people
It a lot easier to pull out $900.00 for a turbo then for brakes.
That’s the truth.
If I had to guess 80% of the modded cars don't have a single brake system up grade. And it’s not because the factory brakes are good enough it’s that go fast parts are more important then stop fast parts.
550.00 For ALKY
Or
600.00 For stopping power.
My guess ALKY
Am I am not just talking about your stuff or vac or pm
I am talking rotors calipers wheel cylinders.
The last mod most people do to their cars is brakes.
Unless you are a DUMB ricer your top five mods has drilled or slotted rotors at number 3 right after Neon lights and giant wing. Boy are they stupid or what.
You just don't get it.
It’s too much money for some people
It a lot easier to pull out $900.00 for a turbo then for brakes.
That’s the truth.
If I had to guess 80% of the modded cars don't have a single brake system up grade. And it’s not because the factory brakes are good enough it’s that go fast parts are more important then stop fast parts.
550.00 For ALKY
Or
600.00 For stopping power.
My guess ALKY
Am I am not just talking about your stuff or vac or pm
I am talking rotors calipers wheel cylinders.
The last mod most people do to their cars is brakes.
Unless you are a DUMB ricer your top five mods has drilled or slotted rotors at number 3 right after Neon lights and giant wing. Boy are they stupid or what.
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
I had a HB system on my Malibu when I installed the TR drivetrain. I liked it a lot and it performed flawless. Locking up the wheels was easy to do and it held good at the dragstrip. I wound up putting a PM on it after the unit started leaking power steering fluid. The power master works just fine also.
If I were to choose the system I liked the best it would be:
1. Powermaster
2. Hydroboost
3. Vacuum
If I were to choose the system I liked the best it would be:
1. Powermaster
2. Hydroboost
3. Vacuum
You asked for a car to test. I offered two, a GN and a TTA.
Statements like "I'm the only liscenced Bosch engine parts dealer in America" make me think you are trying to get over on folks.
I actually was gonna buy your system but I called three times to talk to you about it and my calls were never returned.
People are asking for "facts" about how the system performs on TRs. Use my cars if you like.
Statements like "I'm the only liscenced Bosch engine parts dealer in America" make me think you are trying to get over on folks.
I actually was gonna buy your system but I called three times to talk to you about it and my calls were never returned.
People are asking for "facts" about how the system performs on TRs. Use my cars if you like.
Turbo1dr
9 Sec Wanna-Be
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
The brake issue is like the China headers. People will buy the cheaper stuff before they put the money out for something higher.
Also, the camshaft design can be a major part of how the VB works on a turbo car. People that have the trouble may have a larger cam that takes away overall vacuum. GM also put a VB on other turbo cars other than the TTA like the Sunbird/Skyhawk/Grand Am/Grand Prix/Syclone/Typhoon so the issue of a PM or a HB for only turbo cars is not true.
Also, the camshaft design can be a major part of how the VB works on a turbo car. People that have the trouble may have a larger cam that takes away overall vacuum. GM also put a VB on other turbo cars other than the TTA like the Sunbird/Skyhawk/Grand Am/Grand Prix/Syclone/Typhoon so the issue of a PM or a HB for only turbo cars is not true.
PowerBrake Bob . I am glad that you responded with a very mature response . I am on other forums where the repsonse would have sounded like a two year old . I stopped reading your responses and decided I would tell you why . You dont want to turn off potential customers . I dont kid myself into thinking that you wont get into with someone again . Just think before you hit enter have I said this before . The fact that at a 20 car carshow two of the braking system there belong to you should say enough , I got more out of that than any response you have ever given .
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I think my idle is about 800-850 in neutral. Ya lose a little RPM in drive. But really, vacuum brakes is vacuum brakes. Turbo car, no turbo car, makes no difference. Age old TTA argument is a good argument. If your vacuum brakes don't work right, there's something wrong with the installation or one of the components.
I have been thinking of swapping to the hydro boost system because I have had problems with 2 cars with Powermaster's and then swapped the Good Powermaster out of my current car for the Vacuum brakes and wish I had just left the Powermaster in it. I dont have good quality brakes on the car yet but will be installing 13" C5 brakes soon. After the swap, I hope the vac brakes work a little better. I can hardly do a burn out with putting my foot through the floor with the current vac brakes. I would think they woulf be good for a normal non modded car that is primarily street/show driven but I dont have any good experience personally. I hope to find a hydro boost system if the vac brakes dont work with the C5's. We'll see. Good info on this thread though! ----------Jeremy
Do you use a line lock?
I have the line lock cylinder installed but have not completed wiring it up yet. Are you using line lock to hold the car at the line? What type of switch are you using? I planned to use a rocker switch personally. I have it hidden between the pass. seat and the counsel. i originally planned to just use it for burn outs. I was actually meaning that I couldnt do a burn out on the street with having my foot through the floor board. It does just fine in the wet box.
I used the switch that came with the Hurst kit. Try this, before a burnout bump the car into neutral and rev the motor a few times with your foot on the brake. Keep your foot down and shift back into gear. Hit the switch on the LL and you will not have any problem burning out anywhere ( at least this is my experience ). Same on the line.
I pre-stage...then stop and put it in neutral. While trying to push the brake thru the floorboard:biggrin: I rev the engine 4-5 times and you can feel the vac building and the brakes grabbing hard.
Drop it in gear and boost up, foot still thru the floorboard. When you get to the point you are going to leave at, bump the brake ... just barely ... to stage and go , baby , go.
This is how I can hold tremendous boost with vacs.
IMHO a line lock is a must for any burnout, it keeps tons of stress off of the rear end and brakes.
I pre-stage...then stop and put it in neutral. While trying to push the brake thru the floorboard:biggrin: I rev the engine 4-5 times and you can feel the vac building and the brakes grabbing hard.
Drop it in gear and boost up, foot still thru the floorboard. When you get to the point you are going to leave at, bump the brake ... just barely ... to stage and go , baby , go.
This is how I can hold tremendous boost with vacs.
IMHO a line lock is a must for any burnout, it keeps tons of stress off of the rear end and brakes.
I used the switch that came with the Hurst kit. Try this, before a burnout bump the car into neutral and rev the motor a few times with your foot on the brake. Keep your foot down and shift back into gear. Hit the switch on the LL and you will not have any problem burning out anywhere ( at least this is my experience ). Same on the line.
I pre-stage...then stop and put it in neutral. While trying to push the brake thru the floorboard:biggrin: I rev the engine 4-5 times and you can feel the vac building and the brakes grabbing hard.
Drop it in gear and boost up, foot still thru the floorboard. When you get to the point you are going to leave at, bump the brake ... just barely ... to stage and go , baby , go.
This is how I can hold tremendous boost with vacs.
IMHO a line lock is a must for any burnout, it keeps tons of stress off of the rear end and brakes.
HTH
I pre-stage...then stop and put it in neutral. While trying to push the brake thru the floorboard:biggrin: I rev the engine 4-5 times and you can feel the vac building and the brakes grabbing hard.
Drop it in gear and boost up, foot still thru the floorboard. When you get to the point you are going to leave at, bump the brake ... just barely ... to stage and go , baby , go.
This is how I can hold tremendous boost with vacs.
IMHO a line lock is a must for any burnout, it keeps tons of stress off of the rear end and brakes.
HTH
I just read this thread, it's fabulous.
It has to take the prize for the most hijacked thread on the board.
I had to chime in.
To ChavoLC2: You can obviously see that "The Great Brake Debate" will rage on. It has on every TR board that I have seen. The choice is up to you.
To Turbo1dr: I agree with your order of choice, but I would leave off #3. Personal preference.
To tzque: Thanks for the polite words. I just feel the need to help.
To Red: I think you and I should meet with Bob and get some real world results. I'm game.
To Bob: You really should consider re-costing your system. If it was more affordable, I would think you would sell many of them here. I think your current price for a GN kit is over $800? That's twice the cost of a fresh P/M with a lifetime warranty.
To everyone else: Ya'll go easy on Bob. Other than the fact that he should be a paid vendor for our community (HINT HINT, read those rules again), he is just trying to make it in this world. And it aint easy these days.
It has to take the prize for the most hijacked thread on the board.
I had to chime in.
To ChavoLC2: You can obviously see that "The Great Brake Debate" will rage on. It has on every TR board that I have seen. The choice is up to you.
To Turbo1dr: I agree with your order of choice, but I would leave off #3. Personal preference.
To tzque: Thanks for the polite words. I just feel the need to help.
To Red: I think you and I should meet with Bob and get some real world results. I'm game.
To Bob: You really should consider re-costing your system. If it was more affordable, I would think you would sell many of them here. I think your current price for a GN kit is over $800? That's twice the cost of a fresh P/M with a lifetime warranty.
To everyone else: Ya'll go easy on Bob. Other than the fact that he should be a paid vendor for our community (HINT HINT, read those rules again), he is just trying to make it in this world. And it aint easy these days.
Not to sound dumb but I have never used Line lock before. Do you release the brake pedal after pressing and holding the line lock button? Then release the button after heating the tires? Really the line lock will only hold as well as the vacuum brakes would because it is using the applied pressure from the master. Aslo, do you use a fuse between the switch leg and the cylinder or a fuse between the fuse block and the switch (which seems redundant to me?). Thanks for the good help! Sorry for the Hijack but this is good info about Vacuum brakes.
--------JeremySimilar threads
