Vigilante LU Converter vs Non-LU converter

[Quik Six]

It's the multi disks that rattle. Precision uses a number system to designate how slippery they are. I have a zero pump that I believe is advertised as a 3,000 to 3,200 stall speed which I think is silly because it will go much higher than that as the boost and power climb. I can easily see 4,500 rpm before I release the trans break.

The problem that I see when people talk about this verses that is that the goals/use of their car isn't clearly defied. Because of this you have one person in the conversation who has the goal of setting a new world record on his mind. He hasn't been told,nor has he asked,about the goals of the person who asked the question so they might not be on the same page.

You and I and many others will not go the NL way because we like to drive our cars on the street most of the time. For us,the only choice is single disk or multi disk. I don't know if I would go LU if my car was race only. Many don't. Red Armstrong runs high 8s at 150 mph and still uses a Vig Multi.

I've compared Powerlogger files of cars similar to mine and noted that their rpm was much lower than mine at any given mph once they were past first gear. First gear was very similar. I also noted that they never got past 5,200 rpm with motors that made max power at 5,800 rpm. Again,my motor would be revving much higher at any given mph,but my motor spent more time in the max power area and gained mph faster.

Yes, it slips a lot as the power goes up when it's unlocked. Not when it's locked. They both have pros and cons. They accomplish things in different ways. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's a choice. It's too bad that you got a single disk.

I went though a lot of LU convertors before I got the PTC NL; Art Carr, 2 9x11's, a 7 disc Vigilante and 2 from CK performance. The PTC has great street manners and the difference in highway driving is not noticeable at 50 RPM difference at 70 -75 MPH.

 

[BEATAV8]

You and I and many others will not go the NL way because we like to drive our cars on the street most of the time. For us,the only choice is single disk or multi disk. I don't know if I would go LU if my car was race only. Many don't. Red Armstrong runs high 8s at 150 mph and still uses a Vig Multi.

The PTC 9.5 non-lock has no drawbacks on the street. With a 28" tire and overdrive @ 75mph, there's not much to miss because the lockup is gone. The little bit of slippage at cruise speed is not noticeable.

 

[Ttype6]

The little bit of slippage at cruise speed is not noticeable.

I'm sure it's much better than my Vig unlocked. One of the reasons we Vigilanty owners like the lock up so much is because of the great amount of slip when it's unlocked. In other words,the lock up feature fixes a problem that our converters create. I think I would like the street manners of the PTC just fine.

 

[Quik Six]

My PTC slips close to 8% at 132mph. Love it love it love it. Need one for the wifey.

Beat the hell out of the car trying to get into the 10's. The more power added, the more the convertor slipped and ET/MPH stayed the same so I ordered a PTC from Dusty. First pass with the PTC was test run and it passed. Next run was 10.78 and all full track WOT runs after that were in the high 10's.

Blew a gasket on the way to my mechanic's and filled the oil pan with coolant so had the motor redone with GN1 stroker kit, DLS spec'd roller kit, RJC girdle and T&D rockers. Went to 80# injectors, TT SD chip and DW 300 with BAP. Car has a lot more power and will find out how it will run this spring.

Convertor is pretty tight, 2800 doing Dusty's bump the needle test, and spooling is fast.

 

[bison]

I've found that the high quality non lock ups will work better and better with more power thrown at them. Like it's easier to get the converter right with more power than less. I see the opposite with other converters. Low power they are very predictable. Hit them with 600+hp and the coupling about completely disappears. Then you change the stator and pump to get some of the coupling back and you lose the spoolup. 3000 stall on a quality NL vs 3000 on a cheaper converter will net stall speeds of 5100-5200 with the NL and 6000rpm with the cheaper converter on a 650-700hp low revving hyd cammed engine like what 99% on here run. If the engine is benefitting from spending most of it's time at or over 6000rpm it's a mid 9 sec engine.

 

[Quik Six]

Any recommendations on a good NLU on the round about specs you mentioned?

IMO and my experience, the 9.5" PTC is the way to go. Do some searching on this board and I believe you will find a lot of people that agree.

Call Dusty Bradford; he'll take care of you.

 

[SloGN]

PTC non lock up works!

I have installed 2 of them in cars and they just flat out couple super nice and even at low rpm/low power for street driving.

I'm thinking about awitching my 9/11 out .

but i have been 6.45 in the 1/8 10.19 1/4 so the one i have works pretty good !

 

[KEVINS]

I don't know how,but I though I read that you have a single disk.

My new one is a single disc LU 2800 from Dusty. I have to admit this was sort of an impulse buy and I did some research on what/who had good converters but I totally forgot about the multi-disc units. If I would have remembered about them I probably would have bought one of them instead. When I get a new trans next spring I may change converters too but I'll have to wait.

ks

 

[bison]

My new one is a single disc LU 2800 from Dusty. I have to admit this was sort of an impulse buy and I did some research on what/who had good converters but I totally forgot about the multi-disc units. If I would have remembered about them I probably would have bought one of them instead. When I get a new trans next spring I may change converters too but I'll have to wait.

ks

You should experience the street manners with one of the PTC nl's Patrick and I are talking about. I would advise against a multi-disc
Vig. There's a lot more that can go wrong with it and it will be looser than a Ptc 9.5" cruising around. The vig can be made to work but with todays converter tech it's not worth it

 

[BEATAV8]

You should experience the street manners with one of the PTC nl's Patrick and I are talking about.

X2. Mine "feels" like a really loose converter leaving a stop sign and ofcourse when spooling up at the line. But then something magic happens and it just couples hard when the RPMs and power come on.

 

[Ttype6]

X2. Mine "feels" like a really loose converter leaving a stop sign and ofcourse when spooling up at the line. But then something magic happens and it just couples hard when the RPMs and power come on.

This is what I've seen in Powerlogger files I've looked at.

 

[Ttype6]

My new one is a single disc LU 2800 from Dusty. I have to admit this was sort of an impulse buy and I did some research on what/who had good converters but I totally forgot about the multi-disc units. If I would have remembered about them I probably would have bought one of them instead. When I get a new trans next spring I may change converters too but I'll have to wait.

ks

Mo money Mo money Mo money! I suspect Satan plays a role in our obsession.

Thank god for Jesus!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[Dusty Bradford]

X2. Mine "feels" like a really loose converter leaving a stop sign and ofcourse when spooling up at the line. But then something magic happens and it just couples hard when the RPMs and power come on.

Great explanation. Makes all those cuss words, long weekends, bruised knuckles, broken parts and buckets of trans fluid worth it when I see the impact it had for all you guys.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

With most customers reporting only 50-100 rpm difference from a lock-up to my 9.5 non lock it kinda makes a lock-up look like a thing of the past. I understand alot of guys want the direct swap of the lock-up. Some don't feel a $950 non lock fits the budget but when it comes down to performance........I'll never own another lock-up.

I'm sure most on here don't keep up with much outside the Buick world. I had several customers who competed in Hot Rod drag week which is an event where guys drive over 1,000 miles averaging their times on numerous tracks. The 9.5 non lock were all spragless converters yet had no heating issues over the course of the event. No lock-up needed.

 

[Quik Six]

With most customers reporting only 50-100 rpm difference from a lock-up to my 9.5 non lock it kinda makes a lock-up look like a thing of the past. I understand alot of guys want the direct swap of the lock-up. Some don't feel a $950 non lock fits the budget but when it comes down to performance........I'll never own another lock-up.

I'm sure most on here don't keep up with much outside the Buick world. I had several customers who competed in Hot Rod drag week which is an event where guys drive over 1,000 miles averaging their times on numerous tracks. The 9.5 non lock were all spragless converters yet had no heating issues over the course of the event. No lock-up needed.

I was hoping you would show up here pretty soon and give your input. I know how much performance gain my car got when I switched and I know it would have never gotten the level of performance it has now without your convertor.

I've attached a PL file of my best run and I believe it to be a good example how the PTC convertor works. This is a "put it in D, bring up the boost, let off the brake and push down the throttle and sit back and enjoy the ride". Shifts were crisp and smooth and the time slip was good.

Uses a PLX WB and tires are 28".

I'll let you know how the car does next spring. I may even bring it to your track to see if that southern air and sticky track makes it run faster there than at Noble.

Merry Christmas to you and yours and thanks for all your help and advice over the last couple of years.

Phil Engle

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I was hoping you would show up here pretty soon and give your input. I know how much performance gain my car got when I switched and I know it would have never gotten the level of performance it has now without your convertor.

I've attached a PL file of my best run and I believe it to be a good example how the PTC convertor works. This is a "put it in D, bring up the boost, let off the brake and push down the throttle and sit back and enjoy the ride". Shifts were crisp and smooth and the time slip was good.

Uses a PLX WB and tires are 28".

I'll let you know how the car does next spring. I may even bring it to your track to see if that southern air and sticky track makes it run faster there than at Noble.

Merry Christmas to you and yours and thanks for all your help and advice over the last couple of years.

Phil Engle

Thanks Phil. I'm glad to see you pick up as much as you did with just a converter swap. If you decide to head down this way, let me know.