VPE Flow #'s on Stock Intake vs Ported Stock Intake

[GNVYUS 1]

VPE just sent me back my new Stg 3 head flow #'s and I had them flow the stock intake ( with egr tower ) vs the ported stock intake, the results were pretty impressive.

Stock Intake Runner #1 = 194
Ported Stock Intake Runner #1 = 282

That's good enough for my Ported Irons with 219cfm@.500.

 

[Scott Atk]

Those are some killer numbers on the VPE heads. Have you picked out a turbo yet??

 

[PCS74]

Those are some killer numbers on the VPE heads. Have you picked out a turbo yet??

Those aren't head flow numbers. they are for the intake.

Chris S

 

[GNVYUS 1]

The 219@.500 is the VPE Ported Iron flow. These heads look killer and my machinist seconded that, he was really impressed. I will post pics in another thread for those on the Ported Iron Head bubble.

No turbo as of yet, I am sticking with the TA49 for now and will go with either the GT67 or 70P like you did. You ran faster than I want to go on the GT67 so I am leaning towards that one in the .63 HPC Aluminum Polished EX Housing.

 

[NCTURBOS]

...That's good enough for my Ported Irons with 219cfm@.500.

We recently hooked up with a local head porter (non-Buick) who runs a SF-600 flowbench. Over the past 3-weeks I've spent over 19-hours with him flowing some of the most common Buick heads available. We've been using a correct fixture(s), swapping out differnt valve brands, graphing everything, etc. I must say it's been very interesting and very informative.

I'd like to see a flow graph of the VPE heads... Actually, I'd like to flow one on our bench (which is conservative!!), and I bet 219cfm never appears.

I'm not saying they're any worse then claimed, but the only way to compare flow #'s with the other competitive ported iron heads is to measure them all on the same bench, with the same fixture, with the same controller, etc.

FWIW, Campion CNC's only flowed 189.9cfm on the intake, on our bench. Above .400 was really when it got interesting in the comparisons.


K.

 

[PCS74]

I guess I hear big flow numbers so often now I have become immune to real worlds flow numbers. 219 just didn't sound that good to me and I thought he was talking about the 284cfm. I'm not saying the 219 isn't good, or I don't believe you, just when you hear 350 this 380 that all the time low 200's just sounds ho hum.

NCTurbos,

The "same bench" stuff is a myth. If the flowbech numbers are that far off your bench is not calibrated correctly or your not testing at the same conditions.

Years ago I flowed a set of econo-ported/coated Gn1's on a SF600 in Dallas, then I flowed the same head/same port on another SF600 in Houston. Other than the bench itself the tests were identical. The results were within a few CFM of each other, mid 220's IIRC.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I hear you on the flow bench variables, but here is what matters.
The same flow bench says these heads started off at 152cfm at .500, now they are 219@.500. So just go off of the percentage increase and its pretty huge, 44% LARGER

219 might be small for Big Blocks etc, but for GN irons, its about as big as you are going to get, and there are a few other VPE guys who had 224@.500 so I am on the small side for them.

I will post my VPE #'s in another thread with pics and info about VPE and my experience with them soon.

 

[SPOOLN]

Just asking what size cylinder bore/fixture were they using. It will make a difference if they used a 3.800, 4.00 or larger? A bigger bore should flow higher numbers. Not trying to take anything away from anyones intense work.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I flowed a set of VPE's heads on a buddies superflow. VPE flowsheet maxed out at 219, my test showed 194

Which is still good but not 219. My buddy worked on a set of iron heads for weeks with epoxy and everything and got the #'s to 217 but I would be scared to run those heads since they were thin in some important areas.

There are a lot of variables that go into flowing heads but I have seen test's on some of the heads my buddy has experimented with. He is working with Bulldog on designing their port for oldsmobile engines. He has shipped one head to several different engine guys for testing and the cfm always shows within 3-4 cfm between his superflow in his garage and all the other machine shops he has sent it to. From all the data I see it looks like the VPE #'s are high. VPE does a nice job but I can't see them going 219 anywhere.

Just to back up my thoughts. We flowed a brodix head after the buick head. It flowed 317 at the machine shop and flowed 317 at my guys house. That's proof enough for me that the numbers are right.

Bottom line though is how they perform on the strip. Flow#'s are like dyno #'s. If VPE's heads do well on the track then it won't matter what they flow.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I hope those VPE heads you flowed at 194 were Stg 2's and not 3's as 194 is much less than what most guys on this board are getting out of ported irons.

I would be willing to hook up with an IL local to flow the heads but the motor is getting done this week and installed this saturday while its going to be 62 and sunny.

I have $950 in these and would of spent the extra $$ if these heads do flow only 194. I would like to find out if VPE is over stating their flow #'s to get business. :frown:

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Nope, heads were a stage 3 full port job with big valves and Ti retainers. I had a copy of VPE's flow sheet, stock and ported that also maxed out at 219 and stock was also 152 if I remember right. Sounds like you got the same flow sheet I got.

I did call and talk with someone at VPE because I was skeptical about his #'s. I was even using a larger bore to flow on than him which usually inflates the numbers a bit. This made me think the heads were really worse than the 194. VPE's opinion was the larger bore was actually hurting the #'s because it was slowing velocity and/or causing turbulence. I disagree but gave them the benefit of the doubt. VPE did offer to take the heads back and work them some more which seemed odd to me because if they are truely a stage 3 then what else could be done???

They were helpful and friendly over the phone. My concern was if the flow sheet he sent with the heads was the actual flow sheet for that set of heads or just a copy on the computer that get's printed out with every set of heads he ships...... I can't say either way and won't make accusations.

I'll say it again though. They won't go 219 on any bench around here, I don't care what anyone says. Maybe there is some tricks done while flowing to help with the numbers. I wish I had a set of champion irons to flow right behind the VPE's but I didn't.

 

[NCTURBOS]

I wish I had a set of champion irons to flow right behind the VPE's but I didn't.

Dusty, this is my point exactly. In the testing we have been doing for the last 3-weeks we did have a set of Champion CNC irons that we compared vs. many of the "competitors" that TR guys are using. We didn't have a set of VPE's though.

As mentioned above... I guess it doesn't matter as long as they turn the time at the track!!!


K.

 

[WINDMILL]

flow

hey dusty i.ve got a set of champion iron and aluminum gn1's we can checkout on the flow bench if you want to. lets get together sometime and check them. i'm ready when you are. i wpould like to see the numbers on them both. the gn1's were flow by bennet racing, you rember them. call me 256-638-1180.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

We'll get together and go sometime but I'm covered up for the next 3-4 weeks. Still trying to get my car ready for Reynolds but it's getting here fast and I'm getting more behind every day.

I remember those heads. We took a new set of Gn-1 heads and with a lot of time in hand porting they got near the 250 range. These heads went 6.72 a week ago (the mph clocks were messed up) in a full weight car with only a 1.60 60' and at 25psi.

That's how much difference there was in the VPE irons and the ported Gn-1. Right at 40 cfm.

 

[KEVINS]

Here are a bunch of head flow numbers that I received from people to compare to.
Scroll down to the bottom and you'll see several different heads:

http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/Tech_Page_Glossary.html

ks

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I honestly do not think these heads are for real anymore. They sent me back my heads with 160 seat pressure due to the valves being 1.70 instead of 1.75. If they missed that one, there is no way they can squeeze out about 10 more cfm than every other ported I have talked to recently on Stock Irons.

I will post my flow #'s to see if they are a carbon copy of yours Dusty.

 

[insane6]

lift intake exhaust
400 206 173
450 212 178
500 217 181
550 220 183
600 221 184
This were the numbers on my flow sheet from VPE , I don't know how acurate they are but set a new best this weekend at Noble 11.17@ 118 alky and pump gas, previous best of 11.40@117 (race gas)with stock heads. But I have been wondering how true the flow sheet were

 

[NCTURBOS]

lift intake exhaust
400 206 173
450 212 178
500 217 181
550 220 183
600 221 184
This were the numbers on my flow sheet from VPE , I don't know how acurate they are but set a new best this weekend at Noble 11.17@ 118 alky and pump gas, previous best of 11.40@117 (race gas)with stock heads. But I have been wondering how true the flow sheet were

Does anyone close to the Charlotte, NC area have a set of these heads we can put on our flow bench?? I'd like to put the B.S. aside and get the real results of comparison. IMHO... There's no way those are real #'s!! But #'s don't mean everything either. If the car runs well with them... :wink:


K.

 

[Novachris]

Interesting reading...
I've been running ported production heads with roller valvetrain on a 109 block with flow numbers below at 28 in vacuum;

lift intake exhaust
.300 156 115
.400 174 134
.500 175 141

unported, my stock heads hit the wall at 151 on the intake as well.

At 27-28lbs boost, I've hit 9.9's at over 135mph in a 3300lb car. I hit 606 rwhp at 21lbs of boost on the chassis dyno with this setup (Ford AOD tranny locked up in third). I can hardly wait for my new Champion heads!

How do the flow numbers you guys are talking about equate to rwhp or times at the track for a given weight and boost level? Insane6, how much boost were you running?

 

[insane6]

Insane6, how much boost were you running?[/QUOTE]

On the 11.40 run 24 psi(stock heads)
On the 11.17 run 24 psi(VPE stage3 ported)